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Subject: Re: [bpfk] extended rafsi and a tosmabru/slinku'i boondoggle
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On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 1:48 AM, John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org> wrote:

> Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas scripsit:
>
> > Yep. An intermediate possibility would be to keep the rafsi system,
> > but discard the slinku'i exception. That would make the rules for
> > brivla recognition much simpler, so that for example slinku'i and sport=
e
> > would be valid fu'uvla, at the cost of requiring "y" in some more CVC-
> > initial lujvo.
>
> That's exactly what Loglan has done.  Lujvo suffer a little, fu'ivla
> benefit a little.


And simplicity of morphology benefits a lot.


> For that matter, we could take an even simpler approach
> and just say that CVCy- is always required initially in words of three
> or more syllables.


I don't know, I see some disadvantages with that. There are many more
CVC-lujvo that start with CVC/C than with CVCC, including many frequent
prefixes such as sel- and tol-, so requiring that additional -y- is much
more onerous. Also, if linku'i is to be an invalid form, we would be
getting rid of the slinku'i rule just to be replaced by the equally
annoying linku'i rule, which wouldn't make any sense. If linku'i was to
become a fu'ivla distinct from the lujvo linyku'i, I think that might be
confusing. (Also problematic for brivla rafsi, which one gets the
-ylinku'i'y- rafsi, given that CVC is not strictly word-initial there?) The
camxes morphology already allows the -y- after CVC whether it's required or
not, so anyone not sure about how tosmabru works can always stick with
CVCy- without the need to make it required for everyone else.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Tue, Nov 18, 2014 at 1:48 AM, John Cowan <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:cowan@mercury.ccil.org" target=3D"_blank">cowan@mercury.ccil.org=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Jorge Llamb=C3=ADa=
s scripsit:<br>
<span class=3D""><br>
&gt; Yep. An intermediate possibility would be to keep the rafsi system,<br=
>
&gt; but discard the slinku&#39;i exception. That would make the rules for<=
br>
&gt; brivla recognition much simpler, so that for example slinku&#39;i and =
sporte<br>
&gt; would be valid fu&#39;uvla, at the cost of requiring &quot;y&quot; in =
some more CVC-<br>
&gt; initial lujvo.<br>
<br>
</span>That&#39;s exactly what Loglan has done.=C2=A0 Lujvo suffer a little=
, fu&#39;ivla<br>
benefit a little.=C2=A0</blockquote><div><br></div><div>And simplicity of m=
orphology benefits a lot.</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_=
quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1=
ex"> For that matter, we could take an even simpler approach<br>
and just say that CVCy- is always required initially in words of three<br>
or more syllables.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>I don&#39;t know, I see =
some disadvantages with that. There are many more CVC-lujvo that start with=
 CVC/C than with CVCC, including many frequent prefixes such as sel- and to=
l-, so requiring that additional -y- is much more onerous. Also, if linku&#=
39;i is to be an invalid form, we would be getting rid of the slinku&#39;i =
rule just to be replaced by the equally annoying linku&#39;i rule, which wo=
uldn&#39;t make any sense. If linku&#39;i was to become a fu&#39;ivla disti=
nct from the lujvo linyku&#39;i, I think that might be confusing. (Also pro=
blematic for brivla rafsi, which one gets the -ylinku&#39;i&#39;y- rafsi, g=
iven that CVC is not strictly word-initial there?) The camxes morphology al=
ready allows the -y- after CVC whether it&#39;s required or not, so anyone =
not sure about how tosmabru works can always stick with CVCy- without the n=
eed to make it required for everyone else.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;=
o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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