Received: from mail-oi0-f55.google.com ([209.85.218.55]:50215)
	by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128)
	(Exim 4.80.1)
	(envelope-from <bpfk-list+bncBCK5RNPX7QBBBT6ZX2RQKGQEIWKAHOI@googlegroups.com>)
	id 1Xrvdt-0005md-QR; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:21:26 -0800
Received: by mail-oi0-f55.google.com with SMTP id a3sf766344oib.0
        for <multiple recipients>; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:21:19 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
        d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806;
        h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version
         :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results
         :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help
         :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe;
        bh=6c/AZ3s8XPl3ToD/Yb+Nz174DlL28GBYXXqypRjBgzs=;
        b=h5pFypNxfqYD07dhz/cNOElWITc5GqYYTKW7H5RVwiJmgsggn6tpDfvj+wLySs/TY1
         yRB/gvjftfxQiLgb521CRLfRZwD5qvhz3sR79hxrqMVWMyXwL3pqWDw7ZOwDkT8/Goo1
         hBpDJD8BKIabF2CxVs4nX0Z2N0eMaqZ2JTnKSO1FPw/xm6wD4Lmy7rmZtnuUXwG2NCC7
         mfdyTFLzyrAQq14KiRZRzUEETexHQrXd2tYnsfoqGHE4q+ZeSgGdmPsA5KCwqXcwlrNp
         CDssVX+Z4zJKQO2/uHjBaT5Z7aSP4acpbXqHhuUACeSJI47VoQFqSoyeh1yYEnc+admg
         0vZg==
X-Received: by 10.140.20.108 with SMTP id 99mr48619qgi.15.1416604879678;
        Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:21:19 -0800 (PST)
X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Received: by 10.140.106.195 with SMTP id e61ls947784qgf.46.gmail; Fri, 21 Nov
 2014 13:21:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.236.222.166 with SMTP id t36mr6290266yhp.24.1416604879507;
        Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:21:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-qa0-x231.google.com (mail-qa0-x231.google.com. [2607:f8b0:400d:c00::231])
        by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b3si1631914qcq.2.2014.11.21.13.21.19
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:21:19 -0800 (PST)
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::231 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c00::231;
Received: by mail-qa0-f49.google.com with SMTP id s7so3937494qap.8
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>; Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:21:19 -0800 (PST)
X-Received: by 10.140.104.236 with SMTP id a99mr9415066qgf.56.1416604879254;
        Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:21:19 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [2607:f470:6:400d:3027:5b2c:100::] ([2607:f470:6:400d:90bb:f60a:7991:345])
        by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id o40sm5661785qga.23.2014.11.21.13.21.18
        for <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
        (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128);
        Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:21:18 -0800 (PST)
Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:21:18 -0500
From: Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com>
To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Message-ID: <407A8993FE744C7FB7AA19EDAB90EE87@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAO7tK2eHn8xe6Mt_+kdXR1x-+8aA9=2HKieePKMgRa5Ac0-S4Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO7bV+ig0AXYbyyFvXrZNujAU2rO23KoF3HA-njpbyTdHaGf-Q@mail.gmail.com>
 <CAO7tK2eHn8xe6Mt_+kdXR1x-+8aA9=2HKieePKMgRa5Ac0-S4Q@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [bpfk] {e'i} in usage and in the wiki
X-Mailer: sparrow 1.6.4 (build 1178)
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="546facce_6f011b56_13b"
X-Original-Sender: durka42@gmail.com
X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com;       spf=pass
 (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c00::231
 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=durka42@gmail.com;       dkim=pass
 header.i=@gmail.com;       dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com
Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
Precedence: list
Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com
List-ID: <bpfk-list.googlegroups.com>
X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765
List-Post: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/post>, <mailto:bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
List-Help: <http://groups.google.com/support/>, <mailto:bpfk-list+help@googlegroups.com>
List-Archive: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list
Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com
List-Subscribe: <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>, <mailto:bpfk-list+subscribe@googlegroups.com>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:googlegroups-manage+972099695765+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com>,
 <http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list/subscribe>
X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-)
X-Spam_score: -1.9
X-Spam_score_int: -18
X-Spam_bar: -

--546facce_6f011b56_13b
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

Er, how is this not redundant to {.ei}? {.ei mi cliva} is what I've always =
said for that example.

mu'o mi'e la durkavore =20


On Friday, November 21, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:

> =20
> =20
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.c=
om (mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Irrealis+Attitudinals
> > "Attitudinal. Used to command / dictate / instruct / order / oblige / c=
onstrain / impose an obligation."
> > =20
> > This might be in conflict with the current usage meaning roughly "have =
to"
> > =20
> > May be it's not in conflict but then explanations and more examples mus=
t be given.
> > Is "command to myself" really "I have to"?
> > =20
> =20
> =20
> I would translate for example "e'i mi cliva" into Esperanto as "mi foriru=
". which is a first person imperative. English doesn't strictly have first =
person imperatives, so it would be "I should leave".
> =20
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
> =20
> -- =20
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups=
 "BPFK" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an=
 email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscr=
ibe@googlegroups.com).
> To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com (mailto:b=
pfk-list@googlegroups.com).
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--=20
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--546facce_6f011b56_13b
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline


                <div>Er, how is this not redundant to {.ei}? {.ei mi cliva}=
 is what I've always said for that example.</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o m=
i'e la durkavore</div>
                <div></div>
                =20
                <p style=3D"color: #A0A0A8;">On Friday, November 21, 2014 a=
t 4:19 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:</p>
                <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"border-left-style:solid;=
border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px;">
                    <span><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><div>On F=
ri, Nov 21, 2014 at 5:47 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@g=
mail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bo=
rder-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><a href=3D"http=
://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Irrealis+Attitudinals" target=3D"_bl=
ank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Irrealis+Attitudinals</a><b=
r>"Attitudinal. Used to command / dictate / instruct / order / oblige / con=
strain / impose an obligation."<div><br></div><div>This might be in conflic=
t with the current usage meaning roughly "have to"</div><div><br></div><div=
>May be it's not in conflict but then explanations and more examples must b=
e given.</div><div>Is "command to myself" really "I have to"?</div></div></=
blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would translate for example "e'i mi cliva"=
 into Esperanto as "mi foriru". which is a first person imperative. English=
 doesn't strictly have first person imperatives, so it would be "I should l=
eave".</div><div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div>=
</div></div>

<p></p>

-- <br>
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "=
BPFK" group.<br>
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br>
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br>
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br>
</div></div></span>
                =20
                =20
                =20
                =20
                </blockquote>
                =20
                <div>
                    <br>
                </div>
           =20

<p></p>

-- <br />
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &=
quot;BPFK&quot; group.<br />
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
mail to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com">bpfk-list=
+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
To post to this group, send email to <a href=3D"mailto:bpfk-list@googlegrou=
ps.com">bpfk-list@googlegroups.com</a>.<br />
Visit this group at <a href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list">ht=
tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list</a>.<br />
For more options, visit <a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/d/optout">http=
s://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br />

--546facce_6f011b56_13b--