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Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:28:22 +0000
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] {e'i} in usage and in the wiki
From: And Rosta <and.rosta@gmail.com>
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English "must" is sometimes to encode,  in contrast to "have to", that the
speaker is the source of the obligation. So "e'i mi cliva" would be like "I
must go", while "ei mi cliva" would be like "I should go" or "I have to
go". But these meanings are modal rather than illocutionary.

--And.
On 21 Nov 2014 21:31, "Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas" <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Er, how is this not redundant to {.ei}? {.ei mi cliva} is what I've
>> always said for that example.
>>
>
> They are similar, yes. The main difference is that with ".e'i" the speake=
r
> is the source of authority, whereas with ".ei" it's just how the speaker
> feels things ought to be. With first person actions the difference can be
> very subtle, but with second or third person it's more clear: "ei" is "th=
is
> ought to happen", whereas ".e'i" is "let this happen, make this happen".
> "ei gusni" "there ought to be light (but there's nothing I can do about
> it)" "e'i gusni" "let there be light (I command that it be so)".
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>
> --
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<p dir=3D"ltr">English &quot;must&quot; is sometimes to encode,=C2=A0 in co=
ntrast to &quot;have to&quot;, that the speaker is the source of the obliga=
tion. So &quot;e&#39;i mi cliva&quot; would be like &quot;I must go&quot;, =
while &quot;ei mi cliva&quot; would be like &quot;I should go&quot; or &quo=
t;I have to go&quot;. But these meanings are modal rather than illocutionar=
y.</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">--And.</p>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 21 Nov 2014 21:31, &quot;Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas&=
quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On F=
ri, Nov 21, 2014 at 6:21 PM, Alex Burka <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:durka42@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">durka42@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;bord=
er-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div>Er, how is this not redundant to {.ei}? {.ei mi cliva}=
 is what I&#39;ve always said for that example.</div></blockquote><div><br>=
</div><div>They are similar, yes. The main difference is that with &quot;.e=
&#39;i&quot; the speaker is the source of authority, whereas with &quot;.ei=
&quot; it&#39;s just how the speaker feels things ought to be. With first p=
erson actions the difference can be very subtle, but with second or third p=
erson it&#39;s more clear: &quot;ei&quot; is &quot;this ought to happen&quo=
t;, whereas &quot;.e&#39;i&quot; is &quot;let this happen, make this happen=
&quot;. &quot;ei gusni&quot; &quot;there ought to be light (but there&#39;s=
 nothing I can do about it)&quot; &quot;e&#39;i gusni&quot; &quot;let there=
 be light (I command that it be so)&quot;.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;=
o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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