Received: from mail-ee0-f56.google.com ([74.125.83.56]:63876) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XsDcp-0007hp-OK; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:36 -0800 Received: by mail-ee0-f56.google.com with SMTP id c41sf640337eek.11 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:24 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=PmdhEC5JScEVsA15fLnCHK+sD0sqgwiejkjkEyrM+Qs=; b=VAUoUkzTKrso51/GGKi0Qc+0dqOHTBJC/z3n6lG3ln3UdNp0hYfZH5gnCDDarGywCD lCjciqWCZ6ywsYvlKiFk6jDcRUf4YjHv5tDf2jlb/TlOUXTC0yjyrVQ83RF6wHmpPRM5 1g9VdVDtkhSMntID4uAqYsJe7Phpx2Xr9v1SbYnCizlj9UmydCeiVrtDsXJegn64vjQn 4ewDhx8ODLA6wx6GpTAgQQp0t4Zx8eaUZS70InICcadl7msZ2EBUiSXT+R1e4sWkJUhE duDm4CFrh8Ly/pyLY9PCd/YXlCdcDqfthRgxvS7CDXPoG9ZVd0i1qOUm9dvM3BzH25dl WHLw== X-Received: by 10.180.221.73 with SMTP id qc9mr3786wic.15.1416674004269; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:24 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.97.102 with SMTP id dz6ls141355wib.25.canary; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:23 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.181.12.37 with SMTP id en5mr1407660wid.6.1416674003961; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-la0-x22a.google.com (mail-la0-x22a.google.com. [2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id sg7si961301lbb.1.2014.11.22.08.33.23 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a; Received: by mail-la0-f42.google.com with SMTP id s18so5800101lam.15 for ; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.112.162.101 with SMTP id xz5mr11132158lbb.49.1416674003796; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.114.70.111 with HTTP; Sat, 22 Nov 2014 08:33:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <407A8993FE744C7FB7AA19EDAB90EE87@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 13:33:23 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] {e'i} in usage and in the wiki From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01182b1ac24a280508751e31 X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4010:c03::22a as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --089e01182b1ac24a280508751e31 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > Usage tells that: > ei mi cliva - conventions/rules dictate that I leave. > e'i mi cliva - the situation forces me to leave. > ei is a UI for {sei mi te javni}. > e'i is a UI for {sei mi bilga}. > That would mean "e'i" can only be used with "mi" as agent, but I see a lot of usage of these words with sentences where "mi" is not the agent. Some random examples for ".e'i" from korpora zei sisku: do sanga.e'i .i mi do viska sei.e'ido terpa .au .ei.e'ido cilre fi lo cnima'o .i.e'ilo xekri cu kelci .i.e'izo_cu .e nai zo_xu co'e .uinai.e'ido toljundi mi .i lo te pilno .e lo te xamgu cu.e'ise setca .i ku'i.e'imi'o denpa .e'iko ta mi dunda > So my question is why e'i was moved from {ei} group into {e'V} group > turning it into kinda imperative marker. > I don't think it was moved as such. CLL doesn't even give an example with ".e'i", so it's not very clear that it wasn't in the e'V group from the start. Since you can use ".e'i" for a first person imperative anyway, it just makes sense to define it as a regular member of the e'V group. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e01182b1ac24a280508751e31 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 11:37 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <= gleki.is.my= .name@gmail.com> wrote:
=
Usage tells = that:
ei mi cliva - conventions/rules dictate that I leave.
=
e'i mi cliva - the situation forces me to leave.
ei is a= UI for {sei mi te javni}.
e'i is a UI for {sei mi bilga}.

That would mean "= ;e'i" can only be used with "mi" as agent, but I see a l= ot of usage of these words with sentences where "mi" is not the a= gent. Some random examples for ".e'i" from korpora zei sisku:=

do=C2=A0sanga= .e'i

.i=C2=A0mi=C2=A0do=C2=A0viska=C2=A0sei.e'i= do=C2=A0<= /span>terpa

.au=C2=A0.ei.e'ido=C2=A0cilre=C2=A0fi=C2=A0lo=C2=A0= cnima'o<= /td>

<= td class=3D"" style=3D"text-align:right;vertical-align:text-top;white-space= :nowrap;border:none">.i
.e'ilo=C2=A0xekri=C2=A0cu=C2=A0kelci

.i.e'i<= /td>zo_cu=C2=A0= .e=C2=A0nai=C2=A0zo_xu=C2=A0co'e
.uinai.e'ido=C2=A0toljundi= =C2=A0mi

.i=C2=A0= lo=C2=A0te=C2=A0pilno=C2=A0.e=C2=A0lo=C2=A0te=C2=A0xamgu= =C2=A0cu.e'ise=C2=A0setca
=C2=A0<= /table>
.i=C2=A0ku'i.e'imi'o=C2=A0<= /span>denpa
.e'iko=C2=A0ta=C2=A0mi=C2=A0dunda
=C2=A0
So my question is why e'i was= moved from {ei} group into {e'V} group turning it into kinda imperativ= e marker.

I don'= ;t think it was moved as such. CLL doesn't even give an example with &q= uot;.e'i", so it's not very clear that it wasn't in the e&= #39;V group from the start. Since you can use ".e'i" for a fi= rst person imperative anyway, it just makes sense to define it as a regular= member of the e'V group.

mu'o mi'e xo= rxes

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