2014-11-22 19:33 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.co= m>:

<= br>
On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 11:3= 7 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> w= rote:

<= div class=3D"gmail_quote">
Usage tells that:
ei mi cliva - co= nventions/rules dictate that I leave.
e'i mi cliva - the situ= ation forces me to leave.
ei is a UI for {sei mi te javni}.
=
e'i is a UI for {sei mi bilga}.

That would mean "e'i" can only b= e used with "mi" as agent

oops, sorry. the two my definitions of {e'i} contradic= t each other.

Let me try once again:

ei mi cliva -= conventions/rules dictate that I leave.

e'i mi cliva - the s= ituation forces me to leave.

ei =3D sei [lo = nu no'a cu] se javni

e'i =3D sei [lo nu no'a cu] se b= apli [be lo nau tcini]

by [lo nu no'a] I mean = the event of the bridi in which the sei-clause is inserted.

<= /div>

, but I see a lot of usage of these words with se= ntences where "mi" is not the agent. Some random examples for &qu= ot;.e'i" from korpora zei sisku:

Do you think they reflect the meaning that you sugge= st for {e'i}?
E.g. this is how I understand them (recurring e= xamples are not translated):

do san= ga .e'i =C2=A0=3D It = has to be so that you sing.

.i mi do viska sei .e'i do terpa =3D ?

.au = .ei .e'i do cilre fi lo cnima'o =3D It s= hould and has to be so that you learn about cnima'o, and I wish it was = so.

.i = .e'i lo xekri = cu kelci

.i .e'i zo_c= u .e nai zo_xu co'e

.uinai .e'i do toljundi mi

.i lo te pilno .e lo= te xamgu cu .e'i se setca
=C2=A0
.i ku'i .e= 9;i mi'o denpa =3D We= have to wait

.e'i ko ta mi dunda =3D It has to be so that you wait so = wait!

I can agree with And that "to have to&q= uot; might not be an illocutionary thing but rather a modal but then how ca= n these examples be understood otherwise?
=C2=A0

=C2=A0
=C2=A0
So my question is why e'i was moved from {ei} group into {e&#= 39;V} group turning it into kinda imperative marker.

I don't think it was moved as = such. CLL doesn't even give an example with ".e'i", so it= 's not very clear that it wasn't in the e'V group from the star= t. Since you can use ".e'i" for a first person imperative any= way, it just makes sense to define it as a regular member of the e'V gr= oup.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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