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From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] BPFK Section: Subordinators
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Le vendredi 5 d=C3=A9cembre 2014 07:46:43 UTC+9, Ilmen a =C3=A9crit :
>
> =20
> On 04/12/2014 19:07, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
> =20
> According to another xorxe's definition {po} is expanded into=20
> po =3D [GOI] poi ke'a se steci le ka ce'u srana
>
>  In the BPFK Section "Subordinators"=20
> <http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Subordinators>, {pe X} is=20
> defined as {poi ke'a srana X}.
> If {po X} is defined as "poi ke'a se steci le ka ce'u srana X", then I=20
> don't see much the difference with {pe} as defined in the BPFK section.
>
> However I think {pe X} would be better defined as {poi ke'a X co'e}, to=
=20
> have a better parallel with co'e / zo'e / xo'e / do'e / tu'a / zo'ei.
>
>
I agree. I asked once a related question:
https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/wvLz7Ew6bzI/discussion

{poi ke'a X co'e} is better as a definition of {pe X} in order to let {pe=
=20
SUMSMI} have a reasonable meaning.

However, we should make explicit that both this definition and the current=
=20
BPFK's definition {poi ke'a srana X} contradict the CLL description in=20
Chapter 9, Section 10:
"Example 10.5 and Example 10.6 have the full semantic content of Example=20
10.1 and Example 10.2 respectively." as I wrote in my second post in the=20
thread above, for example:
{pe cu'u ry} =3D {poi ke'a co'e cu'u ry}=20
it is similar to {poi ry cusku fi'o co'e ke'a}, but not equal to {poi ry=20
cusku ke'a}.

=20

> I used to assume that {po X} was synonymous with {poi X ke'a ponse}, mayb=
e=20
> wrongly.
>
>
I rather prefer your assumption to {poi ke'a se steci le ka ce'u srana},=20
though, in any case, I will obey the final decision of BPFK.

mu'o mi'e la .ilmen.
>
>
>=20

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le vendredi 5 d=C3=A9cembre 2014 07:46:43 UTC+9, I=
lmen a =C3=A9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    <br>
    <div>On 04/12/2014 19:07, Gleki Arxokuna
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div dir=3D"ltr">According to another xorxe's definition {po} is
        expanded into&nbsp;<br>
        po =3D [GOI] poi ke'a se steci le ka ce'u srana</div>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    In <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Subordinators"=
 target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\=
75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lojban.org%2Ftiki%2FBPFK%2BSection%253A%2BSubordinators\=
46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNFfF1GBvYDdX3CMWcUDE8F5aKaT2g';return tru=
e;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.=
lojban.org%2Ftiki%2FBPFK%2BSection%253A%2BSubordinators\46sa\75D\46sntz\075=
1\46usg\75AFQjCNFfF1GBvYDdX3CMWcUDE8F5aKaT2g';return true;">the
      BPFK Section "Subordinators"</a>, {pe X} is defined as {poi ke'a
    srana X}.<br>
    If {po X} is defined as "poi ke'a se steci le ka ce'u srana X", then
    I don't see much the difference with {pe} as defined in the BPFK
    section.<br>
    <br>
    However I think {pe X} would be better defined as {poi ke'a X co'e},
    to have a better parallel with co'e / zo'e / xo'e / do'e / tu'a /
    zo'ei.<br>
    <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I agree. I asked once a rela=
ted question:</div><div>https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/wvLz7Ew6bz=
I/discussion<br></div><div><br></div><div>{poi ke'a X co'e} is better as a =
definition of {pe X} in order to let {pe SUMSMI} have a reasonable meaning.=
</div><div><br></div><div>However, we should make explicit that both this d=
efinition and the current BPFK's definition {poi ke'a srana X} contradict t=
he CLL description in Chapter 9, Section 10:</div><div>"Example 10.5 and Ex=
ample 10.6 have the full semantic content of Example 10.1 and Example 10.2 =
respectively." as I wrote in my second post in the thread above, for exampl=
e:</div><div><div>{pe cu'u ry} =3D {poi ke'a co'e cu'u ry}&nbsp;</div><div>=
it is similar to {poi ry cusku fi'o co'e ke'a}, but not equal to {poi ry cu=
sku ke'a}.</div></div><div><br></div><div>&nbsp;</div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc so=
lid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    I used to assume that {po X} was synonymous with {poi X ke'a ponse},
    maybe wrongly.<br>
    <br></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I rather prefer your assumpt=
ion to {poi ke'a se steci le ka ce'u srana}, though, in any case, I will ob=
ey the final decision of BPFK.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gma=
il_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left: 1ex;"><div text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF">
    mu'o mi'e la .ilmen.<br>
    <br>
    <br>
  </div>

</blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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