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Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 15:54:02 -0500
From: Alex Burka <aburka@seas.upenn.edu>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
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What makes {ii} and {uu} any worse than other glides? I was unaware of prev=
ious suggestions to remove them (since I am relatively jbocitno) but I woul=
dn't be so quick to call "dropping the gavel" to remove two very common att=
itudinals harmless!

mu'o mi'a la durkavore=20


On Friday, December 19, 2014 at 3:34 PM, maikxlx@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello BPFK, =20
>=20
> I am delurking to inform you that I voted for 1.3.1 (allow CGV in cmevla,=
 disallow it in fu'ivla/ma'ovla).  Feel free to disregard my (non-member) v=
ote if you wish.
>=20
> My vote comes with the qualification that the special GV cases /ii/ and /=
uu/ be made illegal (as others have suggested).  With all respect, it strik=
es me as perverse to be seriously considering whacking harmless syllables l=
ike /miu/ and /kua/ from cmevla when sequences like /lei/, /leii/, /leiii/ =
and /leiiii/ are all legal and contrastive, as are presumably /u'u/, /uu'u/=
, /u'uu/, etc.
>=20
> Correct me if I am wrong, but the only two common words that contain thes=
e pairs are {.ii} and {.uu}.  I would suggest replacing these with {.iai} a=
nd {.uau}, but they can also be grandfathered in as (the only) exceptions. =
 Unless there is something that I have overlooked, removing /ii/ & /uu/ fro=
m the language seems so sensible and harmless that I would suggest that the=
 BPFK drop the gavel and make it so prior to deciding the broader GV issue.=
 =20
>=20
> Once /ii/ & /uu/ are removed, then the monosyllabic and glided disyllabic=
 realizations of any diphthong could be in free variation.  So /ia/ could b=
e realized as either [ja] or [ija].
>=20
> I would also advocate the following:
>=20
> - forbid GV in fu'ivla/ma'ovla except after /./ (word-initially).  The pr=
onunciation of disyllabic /ia/ and that of /i'a/ are too close.
>=20
> - allow GV in cmevla.  there would be no hard rules on realization, but t=
hese might be regarded as suggested guidelines:
>   - pronounce /iV/ monosyllabic after onset /p b f v m k g x ./  =20
>   - pronounce /uV/ monosyllabic after onset /t d s z c j k g x ./=20
>   - if preceding C could be part of a valid coda, then the following GV i=
s initial and therefore monosyllabic.  e.g. {.sonias.} =3D /.son,ias./ for =
Sonya.
>   - disyllabic elsewhere=20
>  =20
> - I don't see a problem with /eu/ and /ou/ in cmevla.  If /ii/ and /uu/ w=
ere gone, then these could be pronounced [ewu] and [owu], just as /ei/ coul=
d be pronounced [eji].
>=20
> - forbid /'/ adjacent to ANY underlying glide in ALL words.  If /'/ is [h=
], then /poi'i/ sounds just like /poixi/.  Perhaps /poi'i/ could be replace=
d with /po'ei/.  This rule wouldn't solve all problems with /'/, but it wou=
ld help.
>=20
> Best regards,
> -Mike S.
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>  =20
>=20
> --=20
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                <div style=3D"font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 13px;">Wha=
t makes {ii} and {uu} any worse than other glides? I was unaware of previou=
s suggestions to remove them (since I am relatively jbocitno) but I wouldn'=
t be so quick to call "dropping the gavel" to remove two very common attitu=
dinals harmless!<div><br></div><div>mu'o mi'a la durkavore</div></div>
                <div></div>
                =20
                <p style=3D"color: #A0A0A8;">On Friday, December 19, 2014 a=
t 3:34 PM, maikxlx@gmail.com wrote:</p>
                <blockquote type=3D"cite" style=3D"border-left-style:solid;=
border-width:1px;margin-left:0px;padding-left:10px;">
                    <span><div><div><div dir=3D"ltr">Hello BPFK,&nbsp; <br>=
<br>I am delurking to inform you that I voted for 1.3.1 (<span>allow CGV in=
 cmevla, disallow it in fu'ivla/ma'ovla</span>).&nbsp; Feel free to disrega=
rd my (non-member) vote if you wish.<br><br><div>My
 vote comes with the qualification that the special GV cases /ii/ and =20
/uu/ be made illegal (as others have suggested).&nbsp; With all respect, it=
 strikes me as perverse to be seriously considering whacking harmless sylla=
bles like /miu/ and /kua/   from cmevla when sequences like /lei/, /leii/, =
/leiii/ and /leiiii/ are all legal and contrastive, as are presumably /u'u/=
, /uu'u/, /u'uu/, etc.<br><br>Correct me if I am wrong, but the only two co=
mmon words that contain these pairs are {.ii} and {.uu}.&nbsp; I =20
would suggest replacing these with {.iai} and {.uau}, but they can also =20
be grandfathered in as (the only) exceptions.&nbsp; Unless there is =20
something that I have overlooked, removing /ii/ &amp; /uu/ from the languag=
e seems so =20
sensible and harmless that I would suggest that the BPFK drop the gavel and=
 make it so =20
prior to deciding the broader GV issue.&nbsp; <br><br>Once /ii/ &amp; =20
/uu/ are removed, then the monosyllabic and glided disyllabic =20
realizations of any diphthong could be in free variation.&nbsp; So /ia/ cou=
ld be realized as either [ja] or [ija].<br><br>I would also =20
advocate the following:<br><br>- forbid GV in <span>fu'ivla/ma'ovla</span> =
except after /./ (word-initially).&nbsp; The pronunciation of disyllabic /i=
a/ and that of /i'a/ are too close.<br><br>- allow GV in <span>cmevla.&nbsp=
; there would be no hard rules on realization, but these might be regarded =
as suggested guidelines:<br></span><span><span>&nbsp; - pronounce /iV/ mono=
syllabic after onset /p b f v m k g x ./&nbsp;&nbsp; <br></span></span><spa=
n><span><span>&nbsp; - </span></span></span><span><span><span><span><span>p=
ronounce /uV/ monosyllabic </span></span>after onset /t d s z c j k g x ./ =
<br>&nbsp; - if preceding C could be part of a valid coda, then the followi=
ng GV is initial and therefore monosyllabic.&nbsp; e.g. {.sonias.} =3D /.so=
n,ias./ for Sonya.<br></span></span>&nbsp; - disyllabic elsewhere <br>&nbsp=
; <br>- I don't see a problem with /eu/ and /ou/ in cmevla.&nbsp; If /ii/ a=
nd /uu/ were gone, then these could be pronounced [ewu] and [owu], just as =
/ei/ could be pronounced [eji].<br><br>- forbid /'/ adjacent to ANY underly=
ing glide in ALL words.&nbsp; If /'/ is [h], then /poi'i/ sounds just like =
/poixi/.&nbsp; Perhaps /poi'i/ could be replaced with /po'ei/.&nbsp; This r=
ule wouldn't solve all problems with /'/, but it would help.<br><br>Best re=
gards,<br>-Mike S.<br><br><br><br><br><br></span><br><br><br><br><br></div>=
<div><br>&nbsp;</div></div>

<p></p>

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</div></div></span>
                =20
                =20
                =20
                =20
                </blockquote>
                =20
                <div>
                    <br>
                </div>
           =20

<p></p>

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