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[2607:f470:8:64:5ea5::2]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id u7si1802970qcf.2.2014.12.19.14.03.20 for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 14:03:20 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of aburka@seas.upenn.edu designates 2607:f470:8:64:5ea5::2 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f470:8:64:5ea5::2; Received: from [158.130.104.209] (SEAS208.wlan.seas.upenn.edu [158.130.104.209]) (authenticated bits=0) by talbot.seas.upenn.edu (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id sBJM3JH4013396 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 19 Dec 2014 17:03:20 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 17:03:19 -0500 From: Alex Burka To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <86CF3AC1702C439EAC77F8EDC0AA0B9D@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <548AC3CB.7090403@gmx.de> <580B9AB84B34485AB4139B921C46CF42@gmail.com> <3ED463A548E74A53BD8F2ECEF0C620F8@gmail.com> <14FDADF47D7841A39D612894E81CC89B@gmail.com> <20141214025736.GB19927@mercury.ccil.org> <20141214190350.GD29313@mercury.ccil.org> <5660b66f-68e1-4e9c-b4ce-1713a7bf1491@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form X-Mailer: sparrow 1.6.4 (build 1178) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5494a0a7_519868c_5568" X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=nai engine=5400 definitions=5800 signatures=585085 X-PP-Spam-Details: rule=add_spam_details policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=4 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=7.0.1-1111160001 definitions=main-1412190217 X-Original-Sender: aburka@seas.upenn.edu X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of aburka@seas.upenn.edu designates 2607:f470:8:64:5ea5::2 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=aburka@seas.upenn.edu Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --5494a0a7_519868c_5568 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline I also thought that glides can't be pronounced disyllabically, because then= our stress rules would be inconsistent (if you pronounce {brodaiare} as {b= ro,da,i,a,re} and stress the /i/ then wouldn't it fall apart?). So I don't = know exactly what you mean by {i,avla} and {mi,avla} here. Am I hopelessly = confused? On Friday, December 19, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote: > =20 > On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 5:34 PM, wrote: > > My vote comes with the qualification that the special GV cases /ii/ and= /uu/ be made illegal (as others have suggested). With all respect, it str= ikes me as perverse to be seriously considering whacking harmless syllables= like /miu/ and /kua/ from cmevla when sequences like /lei/, /leii/, /leiii= / and /leiiii/ are all legal and contrastive, as are presumably /u'u/, /uu'= u/, /u'uu/, etc. > =20 > "leiii" and "u'uu" are not legal by camxes, which does not allow a glide = after a diphthong (so "lei,ii" is out) and does not allow a glide after the= apostrophe (so "u'uu" is out), =20 > =20 > "lei", "le,ii" and "le,ii,ii" contrast in number of syllables. =20 > =20 > > I would also advocate the following: > > =20 > > - forbid GV in fu'ivla/ma'ovla except after /./ (word-initially). The = pronunciation of disyllabic /ia/ and that of /i'a/ are too close. > =20 > Would it be more distinct word-initially than in other positions? It see= ms that .i,avla vs .i'avla are as distinct/undistinct as mi,avla vs mi'avla= . > =20 > mu'o mi'e xorxes > =20 > -- =20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:bpfk-list+unsubscr= ibe@googlegroups.com). > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com (mailto:b= pfk-list@googlegroups.com). > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --5494a0a7_519868c_5568 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
I a= lso thought that glides can't be pronounced disyllabically, because then ou= r stress rules would be inconsistent (if you pronounce {brodaiare} as {bro,= da,i,a,re} and stress the /i/ then wouldn't it fall apart?). So I don't kno= w exactly what you mean by {i,avla} and {mi,avla} here. Am I hopelessly con= fused?
=20

On Friday, December 19, 2014 a= t 4:22 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:


On Fri, = Dec 19, 2014 at 5:34 PM, <maikxlx@gmail.com> wrote:
My vote comes with the qualification that the special GV cases /ii/ and =20 /uu/ be made illegal (as others have suggested).  With all respect, it= strikes me as perverse to be seriously considering whacking harmless sylla= bles like /miu/ and /kua/ from cmevla when sequences like /lei/, /leii/, = /leiii/ and /leiiii/ are all legal and contrastive, as are presumably /u'u/= , /uu'u/, /u'uu/, etc.

"lei= ii" and "u'uu" are not legal by camxes, which does not allow a glide after = a diphthong (so "lei,ii" is out) and does not allow a glide after the apost= rophe (so "u'uu" is out), 

"lei", "le,ii" and= "le,ii,ii" contrast in number of syllables. 
 
I would also =20 advocate the following:

- forbid GV in fu'ivla/ma'ovla = except after /./ (word-initially).  The pronunciation of disyllabic /i= a/ and that of /i'a/ are too close.

Would it be more distinct word-initially than in other positions?&= nbsp; It seems that .i,avla vs .i'avla are as distinct/undistinct as mi,avl= a vs mi'avla.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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=20 =20 =20 =20 =20

=20

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
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