Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:08:32 -0800 (PST)
From: guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] official cmavo form
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 Content preview:  Le vendredi 16 janvier 2015 01:52:42 UTC+9, John Cowan a écrit
    : > > guskant scripsit: > > > If we require that ii or uu should be fully
    within the same word, this > > problem will not occur, though. > > Do you
    mean that we should allow ii, uu only in the words ".ii" and ".uu"? > If
   so, I very much favor that idea. IMO they should never have been > allowed
    in Lojban or Loglan, as they can only be clearly articulated > using approximant
    allophones. > [...] 
 
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Le vendredi 16 janvier 2015 01:52:42 UTC+9, John Cowan a =C3=A9crit :
>
> guskant scripsit:=20
>
> > If we require that ii or uu should be fully within the same word, this=
=20
> > problem will not occur, though.=20
>
> Do you mean that we should allow ii, uu only in the words ".ii" and ".uu"=
?=20
> If so, I very much favor that idea.  IMO they should never have been=20
> allowed in Lojban or Loglan, as they can only be clearly articulated=20
> using approximant allophones.=20
>
=20
No. Although I also much favor the idea that "gV" should be only at the=20
beginning of a word, it is not the current topic. I just repeated the idea=
=20
of xorxes from an aesthetic point of view:

Le jeudi 15 janvier 2015 07:21:43 UTC+9, xorxes a =C3=A9crit :
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Alex Burka <abu...@seas.upenn.edu> wrote=
:
>
>> Only within cmevla, right? Otherwise you'd be able to write "tuitsku" an=
d=20
>> get two words.
>
>
> "tuitsku" would indeed unambiguously represent two words "tu" followed by=
=20
> "uitsku". That's why I said that for aesthetic reasons one could also=20
> require that the ii or uu be fully  within the same word.  (I should also=
=20
> say that the V has to be a vowel, not a glide.)
>
>
"Requiring that the ii or uu be fully within the same word" will keep=20
"Cii/uuV..." string reformed from Ci/uV*-fu'ivla being in one word.=20
However, "(C)V(i/u)CCii/uuV..." string reformed from=20
(C)V(i/u)CCi/uV*-fu'ivla is not the case, and split into two words even=20
under the requirement.

Among the fu'ivla to which "Ci/uV -> Cii/uuV" method cannot be applied=20
because of separation into two words, the ones we cannot apply "Ci/uV ->=20
Ci/u'V" method either are now tagged with asterix:

eskua, februa*, fiakre*, fiesta*, kuadranta, kuaidzi, madjio*, matriocka*,=
=20
patriarko*, reskuamata*, restuatara*, tiatro*, tuitsku

The reasons for it are lujvo-nization (febru'a, fi'akre, fi'esta, madji'o,=
=20
matri'ocka, ti'atro) or separation into two words (pa tri'arko, re=20
sku'amata, re stu'atara).
=20

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>Le vendredi 16 janvier 2015 01:52:42 UTC+9, John C=
owan a =C3=A9crit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: =
0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">guskan=
t scripsit:
<br><br>&gt; If we require that ii or uu should be fully within the same wo=
rd, this
<br>&gt; problem will not occur, though.
<br>
<br>Do you mean that we should allow ii, uu only in the words ".ii" and ".u=
u"?
<br>If so, I very much favor that idea. &nbsp;IMO they should never have be=
en
<br>allowed in Lojban or Loglan, as they can only be clearly articulated
<br>using approximant allophones.
<br>
</blockquote><div>&nbsp;</div><div>No. Although I also much favor the idea =
that "gV" should be only at the beginning of a word, it is not the current =
topic. I just repeated the idea of xorxes from an aesthetic point of view:<=
br></div><div><br>Le jeudi 15 janvier 2015 07:21:43 UTC+9, xorxes a =C3=A9c=
rit&nbsp;:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.=
8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-=
left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div><br><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 7:15 PM, Alex Burka&nbsp;<span=
 dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a target=3D"_blank" gdf-obfuscated-mailto=3D"BstEhM40wPwJ=
" rel=3D"nofollow" style=3D"color: rgb(102, 17, 204);">abu...@seas.upenn.ed=
u</a>&gt;</span>&nbsp;wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(2=
04, 204, 204); border-left-style: solid; padding-left: 1ex;">Only within cm=
evla, right? Otherwise you'd be able to write "tuitsku" and get two words.<=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>"tuitsku" would indeed unambiguously repres=
ent two words "tu" followed by "uitsku". That's why I said that for aesthet=
ic reasons one could also require that the ii or uu be fully &nbsp;within t=
he same word. &nbsp;(I should also say that the V has to be a vowel, not a =
glide.)</div><div><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>"Requiring that the ii or uu be fully within the same word" will keep "=
Cii/uuV..." string reformed from Ci/uV*-fu'ivla being in one word. However,=
 "(C)V(i/u)CCii/uuV..." string reformed from (C)V(i/u)CCi/uV*-fu'ivla is no=
t the case, and split into two words even under the requirement.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Among the fu'ivla to which "Ci/uV -&gt; Cii/uuV" method cann=
ot be applied because of separation into two words, the ones we cannot appl=
y "Ci/uV -&gt; Ci/u'V" method either are now tagged with asterix:</div><div=
><br></div><div>eskua, februa*, fiakre*, fiesta*, kuadranta, kuaidzi, madji=
o*, matriocka*, patriarko*, reskuamata*, restuatara*, tiatro*, tuitsku</div=
><div><br></div><div>The reasons for it are lujvo-nization (febru'a, fi'akr=
e, fi'esta, madji'o, matri'ocka, ti'atro) or separation into two words (pa =
tri'arko, re sku'amata, re stu'atara).</div><div>&nbsp;</div></div></div>

<p></p>

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