Received: from mail-la0-f63.google.com ([209.85.215.63]:33135) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YdYDw-0006pn-DC; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:03:35 -0700 Received: by labgd6 with SMTP id gd6sf13527570lab.0; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:03:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=5YHtBcE9nidN6PjB1FFhe5KxNVZE5puGwaX7FryUefg=; b=OQowJWsxNUSO8Pff4kJv++unTJUU6ygfgg/K5CKfAtBgJc7DNNPbtezr+cyPu3icPz gHko1ISF5IqkFF4JzEnMHF8fajmNjMQjYjBC1Y+eYMq4FBVw4Z9KMvJtEqcE377sS6Tt SFdpxnA9r8xxwWHOc58UtH5P+8OkQPWSfA1aKm5W/sk8JGcdVAU04GoJIZePuz5yMMXC lklE32ygq3cZr9dvz4+aA5lWlbzX8a5ODfQuEYk6xbp3f8A3dLel4va1T58/6PJa0IoZ 8S5OaplA8vIQ6+Sd6SCDvv+VlNPLSqeboy1lVzicUpebgKZihJXcwHs6JCHteqzGdD24 DTxA== X-Received: by 10.180.20.76 with SMTP id l12mr124658wie.2.1427954600629; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:03:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.83.9 with SMTP id m9ls291705wiy.16.gmail; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:03:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.83.41 with SMTP id n9mr2720894wiy.4.1427954600314; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22f.google.com (mail-wi0-x22f.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id na10si245417wic.0.2015.04.01.23.03.20 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:03:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f; Received: by mail-wi0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id di4so67228765wid.0 for ; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:03:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.194.240.73 with SMTP id vy9mr92699595wjc.41.1427954600193; Wed, 01 Apr 2015 23:03:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.240.197 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Apr 2015 23:03:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2015 09:03:00 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] selma'o ZEhEI and PEG To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c28c8eb3366a0512b796c7 X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c28c8eb3366a0512b796c7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2015-04-01 11:59 GMT+03:00 guskant : > > > Le mercredi 1 avril 2015 15:24:08 UTC+9, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : >> >> That still adds a lot of strings to the grammar. >> Can you think of a better way with a different grammar that will allow u= s >> to glue semantics from one word and grammar from another word? >> >> 2015-04-01 2:45 GMT+03:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >> >>> >>> gleki asked about incorporating selma'o ZEhEI to PEG and I said it woul= d >>> require modifying lots and lots of rules, basically all the selma'o rul= es. >>> But maybe not. >>> >>> I was thinking of ZEhEI as being similar to ZEI, but that's probably no= t >>> the best way to think about it. ZEhEI is actually much more like BU. Th= e >>> only difference is that instead of creating something like BY, it creat= es >>> something like BAhE. So we only need to do for ZEhEI wrt to BAhE what w= e do >>> for BU wrt to BY. >>> >>> This is still not trivial, because BU interacts with ZEI in weird ways, >>> and now we'd be adding a third ingredient into the mix, which makes it = all >>> even more messy. But the required modifications would probably look >>> something like this: >>> >>> zehei-clause <- pre-clause zehei-clause-no-pre >>> zehei-clause-no-pre <- pre-zei-bu (zehei-tail? zei-tail / zehei-tail? b= u-tail)* zehei-tail post-clause >>> >>> zei-clause-no-pre <- pre-zei-bu (zei-tail? bu-tail / zei-tail? zehei-ta= il)* zei-tail post-clause >>> >>> bu-clause-no-pre <- pre-zei-bu (bu-tail? zei-tail / bu-tail? zehei-tail= )* bu-tail post-clause >>> >>> zehei-tail <- ZEhEI-clause+ >>> >>> pre-zei-bu <- (!ZEhEI-clause !BU-clause !ZEI-clause !SI-clause !SA-clau= se !SU-clause !FAhO-clause any-word-SA-handling) si-clause? >>> >>> ; turns any word into a BAhE modifier >>> >>> ZEhEI-clause <- ZEhEI-pre ZEhEI-post >>> ZEhEI-pre <- pre-clause ZEhEI spaces? >>> ZEhEI-post <- spaces? >>> >>> ; next word intensifier >>> BAhE-clause <- (BAhE-pre BAhE-post)+ / zehei-clause+ >>> BAhE-pre <- BAhE spaces? >>> BAhE-post <- si-clause? !ZEI-clause !BU-clause !ZEhEI-clause >>> >>> I haven't tested any of this, and it may require further tweaking, but = that's the general idea. It may also be necessary to add !ZEhEI-clause wher= ever there's a !ZEI-clause !BU-clause, but I suspect many of those are actu= ally redundant. >>> >>> mu'o mi'e xorxes >>> >>> >> > I prefer abandoning the selma'o ZEhEI and adopting a cmavo compound of > BU+MAI instead. It would be simple to let {ze'ei} be of selma'o MAI. > > For example, the definition of {xo'e} > http://jbovlaste.lojban.org/dict/xo'e > is currently > > zo'e ze'ei pa > > Let's modify it as follows: > > zo'e bu ze'ei pa > > and change the selma'o for {ze'ei} to MAI. > One syllable longer. Well, i'aru'e. -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c28c8eb3366a0512b796c7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


2015-04-01 11:59 GMT+03:00 guskant <gusni.kantu@gmail.com><= /span>:


Le mercredi 1 avril 2015 15:24:08 UTC+9, la gleki a =C3=A9crit=C2= =A0:
That still adds a lot of strings to the grammar.
Can you thin= k of a better way with a different grammar that will allow us to glue seman= tics from one word and grammar from another word?

2015-04-01 2:45 GMT+03:00 Jor= ge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjlla...@gmail.c= om>:

<= div>gleki asked about incorporating selma'o ZEhEI to PEG and I said it = would require modifying lots and lots of rules, basically all the selma'= ;o rules. But maybe not.

I was thinking of ZEhEI a= s being similar to ZEI, but that's probably not the best way to think a= bout it. ZEhEI is actually much more like BU. The only difference is that i= nstead of creating something like BY, it creates something like BAhE. So we= only need to do for ZEhEI wrt to BAhE what we do for BU wrt to BY.

This is still not trivial, because BU interacts with ZEI = in weird ways, and now we'd be adding a third ingredient into the mix, = which makes it all even more messy. But the required modifications would pr= obably look something like this:

zehei-clause <- pre-clause zehei-clause-no-pre
zehei-clause-no-pre <- pre-zei-bu (zehei-tail? zei-tail / zehei-tail? bu=
-tail)* zehei-tail post-clause
zei-cla=
use-no-pre <- pre-zei-bu (zei-tail? bu-tail / zei-tail? zehei-tail)* zei=
-tail post-clause

bu-clause-no-pre <- pre-zei-bu (bu-tail? zei-tail / bu-tail? zehei-tail)=
* bu-tail post-clause
zehei-tail <- ZEhEI-clause+
pre-zei-bu <- (!ZEhEI-claus=
e !BU-clause !ZEI-clause !SI-clause !SA-clause !SU-clause !FAhO-clause any-=
word-SA-handling) si-clause?

;       =
  turns any word into a BAhE modifier 
ZEhEI-clause <- ZEhEI-pre ZEhEI-post
ZEhEI-pre <- pre-clause ZEhEI spaces?
ZEhEI-post <- spaces?
;         next word intensifie=
r=20
BAhE-clause <- (BAhE-pre BAhE-post)+ / zehei-clause+
BAhE-pre <- BAhE spaces?
BAhE-post <- si-clause? !ZEI-clause !BU-clause !ZEhEI-clause
I haven't teste=
d any of this, and it may require further tweaking, but that's the gene=
ral idea. It may also be necessary to add !ZEhEI-clause wherever there'=
s a !ZEI-clause !BU-clause, but I suspect many of those are actually redund=
ant.
mu'o mi'=
;e xorxes


I prefer abandoning th= e selma'o ZEhEI and adopting a cmavo compound of BU+MAI instead. It wou= ld be simple to let {ze'ei} be of selma'o MAI.

=
For example, the definition of {xo'e}=C2=A0
is currently=C2=A0

<= /div>
zo'e ze'ei pa

Let's modify i= t as follows:

zo'e bu ze'ei pa
<= br>
and change the selma'o for {ze'ei} to MAI.=C2=A0

One syllable longer. Well, i'ar= u'e.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list= +unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at ht= tp://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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