Received: from mail-wi0-f191.google.com ([209.85.212.191]:32928) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1YeJlC-0007UW-5o; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:49:05 -0700 Received: by wiwh11 with SMTP id h11sf34476045wiw.0; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:48:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=CHzG5r5Rk1YKUQvDCdXtkLpPUF0OCcUvzmehDuBCdnA=; b=uoeTIbPxOEImv+SFuNBW96mrJTgmqLYAlmEwsO4XDj0Z9CgvIob1+RcMlQCXAiIfvx mNkj/pGfrgISnF83zG2fucIbUGuAXvJDQQ09qDkm9OjPIW2zvDQNzqfgygsSqSfYilH4 jEuy9YNvaw94hgCBlBgGkdzi0oeBV0IUycqaGj8q5GiioNQCFQaBejF88lcTSBLlEIfo 6a6kUw+W4yqhIlgnmTuNSUtYw52dI8zn4D/bJ4QEdErSQ4lAaZf20y+E0lcmamjqWbU2 VODo6uE3kYO4IBwHBM8ll7yv9G+0J8DdZWPsUMvRSH8dVA+ZKoJR3JCx6RZqePKQ69t8 bOtw== X-Received: by 10.152.43.200 with SMTP id y8mr69018lal.41.1428137331264; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:48:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.88.50 with SMTP id bd18ls412612lab.108.gmail; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:48:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.180.74 with SMTP id dm10mr1465958lbc.11.1428137330352; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x229.google.com (mail-wi0-x229.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id p4si395075wiz.0.2015.04.04.01.48.50 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:48:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::229; Received: by mail-wi0-x229.google.com with SMTP id di4so125587923wid.0 for ; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:48:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.12.84 with SMTP id w20mr12750495wib.9.1428137330250; Sat, 04 Apr 2015 01:48:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.240.197 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Apr 2015 01:48:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2015 11:48:29 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] On shutting down English in camxes To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c250764298810512e2221b X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.6 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c250764298810512e2221b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Please note that names of those variables are the heart and soul of Lojban. They are the true grammar, not any words like "predicates" or "verbs" or "nouns". So names of those variables should be Lojbanic words or expressions otherwise we could just say {.ge'u'elidibel.} It's not the true programmers' problem "How do I choose name of variables". It's about how in future we'll describe the language e.g. in jbo-CLL. 2015-04-04 9:53 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna : > > > 2015-04-03 23:54 GMT+03:00 Alex Burka : > >> Translating the operators seems pointless, but we can certainly >> translate things like "elidible" and "clause". >> cmavo_mahoi_GEhU_poi_kahe_kunti is impossibly long, though. How about >> GEhU_vickahe? >> > > This is ungrammatical. > > >> (Or have I been April fooled?) >> > > no > > >> mu'o mi'e durkavore >> >> On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 2:29 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >> >> I had to change to English to discuss PEG because it's impossible to do >> that in Lojban. >> >> I could have invented something on the fly but wouldn't have been >> understood. >> E.g. how do we say "elidible"? >> Seems like it's {jai se curmi fai lo ka se kunti} although we can think >> of it as of {ka'e kunti} >> >> Then the variable "GEhU_elidible" would become >> "mahoi_GEhU_poi_kahe_kunti" or "cmavo_mahoi_GEhU_poi_kahe_kunti" ? >> >> Besides, many variables have names that are impossible to utter or >> remember (like bridi_tail_t1). >> >> We need to extract all necessary elements from e.g. here: >> https://github.com/Ilmen-vodhr/ilmentufa/blob/master/camxes-exp.js.peg >> >> , put them into a table, e.g. in the wiki and then start translating them. >> >> "/" and "(",")" operators should also be possible to say in Lojban. >> >> After that we can create a new PEG which would produce the same trees but >> which will have purely Lojbanic names of nodes. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "BPFK" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "BPFK" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c250764298810512e2221b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Please note that names of those variables are the heart an= d soul of Lojban.=C2=A0 They are the true grammar, not any words like "= ;predicates" or "verbs" or "nouns".

So names of those variables should be Lojbanic words or expression= s otherwise we could just say {.ge'u'elidibel.}
It's = not the true programmers' problem "How do I choose name of variabl= es". It's about how in future we'll describe the language e.g.= in jbo-CLL.


2015-04-04 9:53 GMT+03:00 Gleki Arxokuna <g= leki.is.my.name@gmail.com>:


2015-04-03 23:54 GMT+03:00 Alex Burka <aburka@se= as.upenn.edu>:
Translating the operators seems pointless, but we can c= ertainly translate things like "elidible" and "clause".= cmavo_mahoi_GEhU_poi_kahe_kunti is impossibly long, though. How about GEhU= _vickahe?

This is ungrammatica= l.
=C2=A0
(Or have I been April fooled?)

=
no=C2=A0


mu'o mi'e durkavore
=
=20

On Friday, April 3, 2015 at 2:29= AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:

I had to cha= nge to English to discuss PEG because it's impossible to do that in Loj= ban.

I could have invented something on the fly but woul= dn't have been understood.
E.g. how do we say "elidible&= quot;?
Seems like it's {jai se curmi fai lo ka se kunti} alth= ough we can think of it as of {ka'e kunti}

The= n the variable "GEhU_elidible" would become "mahoi_GEhU_poi_= kahe_kunti" or "cmavo_mahoi_GEhU_poi_kahe_kunti"=C2=A0?

Besides, many variables have names that are impos= sible to utter or remember (like bridi_tail_t1).

=
We need to extract all necessary elements from e.g. here:
https://github.com/Ilmen-vodhr/ilmentufa/blob/maste= r/camxes-exp.js.peg

, put them into a tabl= e, e.g. in the wiki and then start translating them.

"/" and "(",")" operators should also be p= ossible to say in Lojban.

After that we can create= a new PEG which would produce the same trees but which will have purely Lo= jbanic names of nodes.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 =20 =20 =20 =20
=20

=20

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list.
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--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;BPFK" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list= +unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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