Received: from mail-pd0-f188.google.com ([209.85.192.188]:34315) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1YsXpx-0001xH-Dj; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:40:52 -0700 Received: by pdev10 with SMTP id v10sf11980548pde.1; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:40:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=NiB+AFGmff4fWX8kEsjkhw0xmKOD1WdvW6aUg8uYRhY=; b=h4bRdyG4tX8BGpqM+ioyRmEgZku5y9aQsBxwR3J0mJHsXaASrhcsP2sqQyCR8yRF5N pPoqLQv6FO5tW4HKtpBnxYZBCQ9rSpeN8kOMNc3tqfu5GV9/NCh4bgLfUtLU1Tkk+PBD sTJzxPDL2MEXaKgdqDN/cwy6r3h7ZggTqQ4gQhha6uoUPURnJJ2SLUgjKC1EO8TtOLvQ tIaHtp3284v+pfxoJ4T+16D+GiM9Ycy91gtWSfDxTqCGbgMjix1QdurG49Qmvt04PdqF zNqUB9AoTj7LKhuFE8sWeuTWsfN8C2AuQ1fAzp0OTRnDhZ8SNe0G4n1MR1bnMOxi6hWX q/6A== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :content-type:x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe; bh=NiB+AFGmff4fWX8kEsjkhw0xmKOD1WdvW6aUg8uYRhY=; b=reDo7nlD2yNU5Uy90qqNgjeUZY9/vNH6LePuOGznqif302RfI464oUINOETFDFcVTW AAtNflUn8ozd9e9ufAuUyX1MoP32MNJzyxortkKSuFzST8qoi4F9MMJBANjAs84J8zqj +EgmCdQQgoISiJi1Mdi9SkGwfQqXND+V76hKZiLo4vZhdy01BhOEcQOD9S4erVTa7cpw 2QuykM0fWzbjW3d4u0npuvpMG3ImZ8IrUT6b4lMtqyqYIkpk/nSB8uEyxDsqUR5BWzRL H9btvqlgprsckG+7XDGSLIcgQpUvB7VePTzquyODZBfu37ZdbXkzoirBL0dTTcaoQOAw lzvQ== X-Received: by 10.50.253.5 with SMTP id zw5mr249015igc.9.1431528035094; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:40:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.138.138 with SMTP id qq10ls1764591igb.35.canary; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:40:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.25.199 with SMTP id e7mr229891igg.16.1431528034921; Wed, 13 May 2015 07:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 13 May 2015 07:40:33 -0700 (PDT) From: guskant To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <555332D2.4070009@gmail.com> References: <49b0aba3-35fe-4edc-baed-9fe82afda84c@googlegroups.com> <55533182.40400@gmail.com> <555332D2.4070009@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [bpfk] to'e and causation sumtcita compounds MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_5163_311658111.1431528033525" X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -2.0 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.0 X-Spam_score_int: -19 X-Spam_bar: -- ------=_Part_5163_311658111.1431528033525 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5164_325256544.1431528033525" ------=_Part_5164_325256544.1431528033525 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le mercredi 13 mai 2015 07:52:36 UTC, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : > > > I think these to'e TAG can/should be also explained in terms of the scale= s=20 > of the underlying brivla. What is {to'e krinu}? Of course, this is just a= =20 > question of translating into natlangs. I dont mean explaining {to'e krinu= }=20 > with some other Lojban words. > >> >> =20 pe'i lu x_1 to'e krinu x_2 li'u cu dunli=20 lu x_1 fanta x_2 .ije x_1 jicmu ja velcki lo du'u lo natfe be x_2 cu jalge= =20 ma kau li'u=20 lo ka smuni .i lu to'e rinka li'u lu to'e nibli li'u mu'anai ji'a zo'u simsa .i mu'a=20 lu x_1 to'e rinka x_2 li'u cu dunli=20 lu x_1 fanta x_2 .ije lo nu x_1 fasnu na kakne lo ka na se jalge lo nu lo= =20 natfe be x_2 cu fasnu li'u=20 lo ka smuni Le mercredi 13 mai 2015 11:12:12 UTC, Ilmen a =C3=A9crit : > > > > On 13/05/2015 09:43, guskant wrote: > > 1-2. {to'eki'u} in affirmative sentence. > {mi radycru lo nu sipna kei to'eki'u lo nu do cladu} > I give up sleeping prevented by your loud noise. > It may signify "Your loud noise prevents me from giving up sleeping, stil= l=20 > 'I give up sleeping' is true." > Unusual. > > pe'i smuni dunli ja jibni lu lo nu mi radycru lo nu sipna cu se to'e krin= u=20 > lo nu do cladu li'u > =20 jo'a .i mi xusra lo du'u lo cizra .enai lo fadni cu nibli lo du'u mi=20 radycru lo nu sipna cu se to'e krinu lo nu do cladu Le mercredi 13 mai 2015 11:17:47 UTC, Ilmen a =C3=A9crit : > > =20 > > On 13/05/2015 13:12, Ilmen wrote: > =20 > 2. Lojban sentences for "I don't sleep because of your loud noise." > > 2-1-1. {ki'u} in the scope of {naku}. > {naku mi sipna ki'u lo nu do cladu} > "I sleep because of your loud noise" is false. > It may signify: > -1. "The reason for my sleeping is not your loud noise," [1] or, > -2. "I don't sleep; if I were sleeping, the reason for my sleeping would= =20 > be your loud noise." > Both interpretations are unusual. > =20 > pe'i smuni dunli ja jibni lu jitfa fa lo du'u mi sipna ki'u lo nu do clad= u=20 > li'u .i pe'i naku natfe ge lo du'u da'i ja'a sipna ki'u lo drata be lo nu= =20 > cladu gi lo du'u na sipna > > > sa'e pe'i naku natfe ba'e ga lo du'u da'i ja'a sipna ki'u lo drata be lo= =20 > nu cladu gi lo du'u na sipna > > > =20 jo'a .i mi xusra genai lo du'u natfe lo se go'i gi lo du'u ga lo mukti be= =20 lo nu pilno zo ki'u tedi'o lo 2-1-1 mai bridi gi lo nibli be ri cu cizra --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_5164_325256544.1431528033525 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Le mercredi 13 mai 2015 07:52:36 UTC, la gleki a =C3= =A9crit :

I think these to'e TAG can/should be also e= xplained in terms of the scales of the underlying brivla. What is {to'e kri= nu}? Of course, this is just a question of translating into natlangs. I don= t mean explaining {to'e krinu} with some other Lojban words.

<= /div>
 

pe'i
= lu x_1 to'e krinu x_2 li'u
cu dunli 
lu x_1 fanta = x_2 .ije x_1 jicmu ja velcki lo du'u lo natfe be x_2 cu jalge ma kau li'u&n= bsp;
lo ka smuni

.i lu to'e rinka li'u l= u to'e nibli li'u mu'anai ji'a zo'u simsa
.i mu'a 
lu x_1 to'e rinka x_2 li'u
cu dunli 
lu x_1 fanta= x_2 .ije lo nu x_1 fasnu na kakne lo ka na se jalge lo nu lo natfe be x_2 = cu fasnu li'u 
lo ka smuni


Le = mercredi 13 mai 2015 11:12:12 UTC, Ilmen a =C3=A9crit :


On 13/= 05/2015 09:43, guskant wrote:
1-2. {to'eki'u} in affirm= ative sentence.
{mi radycru l= o nu sipna kei to'eki'u lo nu do cladu}
I give up sleeping prevented by your loud noise.
It may signify "Your loud noise = prevents me from giving up sleeping, still 'I give up sleeping' is true."
Unusual.
pe'i smuni dunli ja jibni lu lo nu mi radycru lo nu sipna cu se to= 'e krinu lo nu do cladu li'u

&nbs= p;

jo'a .i mi xusra lo du'u lo cizra .enai lo fadn= i cu nibli lo du'u mi radycru lo nu sipna cu se to'e krinu lo nu do cladu



Le mercredi 13 mai 2015 11:17:47 UTC,= Ilmen a =C3=A9crit :
=20 =20 =20


On 13/05/2015 13:12, Ilmen wrote:
2. Lojban sentences for "I don't sleep because of your loud noise."

2-1-1. {ki'u} in the = scope of {naku}.
{naku mi sipna ki'u lo nu do cladu}
"I sleep because of your loud noise" is false.
It may signify:
-1. "The reason for my sleeping is not your loud noise," [1] or,
-2. "I don't sleep; if I were sleeping, the reason for my sleeping would be your loud noise."
Both interpretations are unusual.
pe'i smuni dunli ja jibni lu jitfa fa lo du'u mi sipna ki'u lo nu do cladu li'u .i pe'i naku natfe ge lo du'u da'i ja'a sipna ki'u lo drata be lo nu cladu gi lo du'u na sipna

sa'e pe'i naku natfe ba'e ga lo du'u da'i ja'a sipna ki'u lo drata be lo nu cladu gi lo du'u na sipna



 

<= div>jo'a .i mi xusra genai lo du'u natfe lo se go'i gi lo du'u ga lo mukti = be lo nu pilno zo ki'u tedi'o lo 2-1-1 mai bridi gi lo nibli be ri cu cizra=

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