Received: from mail-la0-f57.google.com ([209.85.215.57]:33423) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Yxqyn-0005bU-4y; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:50 -0700 Received: by lamq1 with SMTP id q1sf10731348lam.0; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-type:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe; bh=3Bi4NSDoZ6kEU1u4msFyyR6XegTAX/Y1vjBONKAu6Vg=; b=biQDXmIsJOewLdrTUrLNVoboNID6qbLV50NEM0nDvg7ANCScax1Qb53JT/e8GKjMyZ xtzQwaKpJjcRL/5ZQJfpMUR0j67AJGpjEjd2bOOOWO5aNmDApEWb9C8acelpTMOeTSm9 bsSQ+sEl8fTIwD2xmOMLRcycOvEkFm8QFi2Fsk702hToA6mW5QGg74cJ1WLyjSuLb09N AcjOsZRLybb96qlMW3uPPx+2WX4f4BTfdzcMjHHWR6EN/e1+FHALvFSj5QWo6i/8M6Cl AW13qY7JdQuaP20jyy4irsXHZhmoDdLQ0yxn4PPyuYSXo/MXGhSRUhrchChz/jAnAVEp IjKg== X-Received: by 10.180.101.130 with SMTP id fg2mr211283wib.3.1432793257703; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.87.200 with SMTP id ba8ls585494wib.19.canary; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.97.9 with SMTP id dw9mr6312338wib.2.1432793257197; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x230.google.com (mail-wi0-x230.google.com. [2a00:1450:400c:c05::230]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gt9si70548wib.2.2015.05.27.23.07.37 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::230; Received: by mail-wi0-x230.google.com with SMTP id k4so134323007wiz.1 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.240.169 with SMTP id wb9mr12303666wic.49.1432793257076; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.194.221.167 with HTTP; Wed, 27 May 2015 23:07:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <55661E01.8030707@gmail.com> References: <55647BCD.8060008@gmail.com> <55661E01.8030707@gmail.com> From: Gleki Arxokuna Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 09:07:16 +0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] Lojban word definitions style guidelines To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c26e5a1fefbf05171e2d9d X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c26e5a1fefbf05171e2d9d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Some of those guidelines would be better implemented by extending JVS db model. Also if we put variable types in brackets then nothing else should be in brackets. Similarly, examples aren't supported by JVS 1.0 in a nice way. Also while creating my dictionary I used "glosswords" to reflect English nouns. Using a separate field to gloss gismu as verbs would also be nice. Also etymology somewhat contradicts my proposal: https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/131 where we have etymology only in Lojban whereas for the other languages they can be generated by third party software like those that produce printable dictionaries. 2015-05-27 22:41 GMT+03:00 Ilmen : > coi ro do > > A couple of weeks ago, Naours (aka Xelan) suggested to make an official > set of style guidelines for Lojban word definitions, in order to have > definitions that look better and have a consistent style across the > dictionary. > > Those guidelines would also aim at reducing the use of slashes '/' in > definitions, favoring the use of the gloss fields for listing natural > language equivalent words or expressions. The rational for this is that > slashes make definitions more clunky and less pretty, and the result can = be > awkward in languages with inflectional agreements. > > Below is Naours' proposal, translated from French and slightly > modified/adjusted by me (hopefully without misrepresenting the idea of it= s > author). > > mu'o mi'e la .ilmen. > > =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92= =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2= =88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88= =92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92= =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92 > > *Propositions:* > > *** Most important points: > *=E2=86=92* Each definition must have a clear description. Slashes '/' sh= ould be > avoided as much as possible, as they hinder comprehension and make > definitions look awkward. > *=E2=86=92* Each definition must have a simple description: the descripti= on is > written using simple terms, even if that leads to more verbosity. > *=E2=86=92* Each definition must have a description as generic as possibl= e: only > one term per concept, as generic as possible for encompassing the other > appropriate terms. > *=E2=86=92* Every terms corresponding to the described concept are record= ed in > the gloss fields. > *=E2=86=92* The etymologies are presented along with the definition in or= der to > retain the term and its origin. > *=E2=86=92* The various sumti types must be specified between parentheses= : > =E2=80=94 Proposition (bridi abstractor - lo du'u) > =E2=80=94 Event (action or state; event abstractor - lo nu) > =E2=80=94 Property/dimension (property abstractor - lo ka) > =E2=80=94 Quantity (quantity abstractor - lo ni) > > *** Points that may need to be further discussed: > *=E2=86=92* The sumti are described using singular definite articles. > > *Expected results example:* > > balni (gimsu) > Description: x1 is a platform overhanging on facade x2 > Gloss: {balcony, overhang, ledge, shelf} > Exemple 1: > (English): This is a balcony > (Lojban): ti balni > Exemple 2: > (English): The balcony of this building > (Lojban): lo balni be lo vi dinju > Etymology: > Chinese: iantai > English: balkani > Hindi: baramda > Spanish: balkon > Russian: balkon > Arabic: curfa > Notes: > > Some points are rather advanced, and it will maybe be necessary to > modify/improve/remove them. > > mu'o mi'e la .na'urs. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "BPFK" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c26e5a1fefbf05171e2d9d Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Some of those guidelines would be better implemented by ex= tending JVS db model. Also if we put variable types in brackets then nothin= g else should be in brackets.
Similarly, examples aren't supported = by JVS 1.0 in a nice way.
Also while creating my dictionary I use= d "glosswords" to reflect English nouns. Using a separate field t= o gloss gismu as verbs would also be nice.
Also etymology somewha= t contradicts my proposal:=C2=A0https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/131 where we= have etymology only in Lojban whereas for the other languages they can be = generated by third party software like those that produce printable diction= aries.


2015-05-27 22:41 GMT+03:00 Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gma= il.com>:
=20 =20 =20
coi ro do

A couple of weeks ago, Naours (aka Xelan) suggested to make an official set of style guidelines for Lojban word definitions, in order to have definitions that look better and have a consistent style across the dictionary.

Those guidelines would also aim at reducing the use of slashes '/= ' in definitions, favoring the use of the gloss fields for listing natural language equivalent words or expressions. The rational for this is that slashes make definitions more clunky and less pretty, and the result can be awkward in languages with inflectional agreements.

Below is Naours' proposal, translated from French and slightly modified/adjusted by me (hopefully without misrepresenting the idea of its author).

mu'o mi'e la .ilmen.

=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88= =92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92= =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2= =88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88= =92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92

Propositions:

* Most important points:
=E2=86=92 Each definition must have a clear description. Slash= es '/' should be avoided as much as possible, as they hinder comprehension and make definitions look awkward.
=E2=86=92 Each definition must have a simple description: the description is written using simple terms, even if that leads to more verbosity.
=E2=86=92 Each definition must have a description as generic a= s possible: only one term per concept, as generic as possible for encompassing the other appropriate terms.
=E2=86=92 Every terms corresponding to the described concept a= re recorded in the gloss fields.
=E2=86=92 The etymologies are presented along with the definit= ion in order to retain the term and its origin.
=E2=86=92 The various sumti types must be specified between parentheses:
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Proposition (bridi abstractor - lo du= 9;u)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Event (action or state; event abstractor= - lo nu)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Property/dimension (property abstractor = - lo ka)
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Quantity (quantity abstractor - lo ni)
* Points that may need to be further discussed:
=E2=86=92 The sumti are described using singular definite arti= cles.

Expected results example:

balni (gimsu)
Description: x1 is a platform overhanging on facade x2
Gloss: {balcony, overhang, ledge, shelf}
Exemple 1:
=C2=A0 (English): This is a balcony
=C2=A0 (Lojban): ti balni
Exemple 2:
=C2=A0 (English): The balcony of this building
=C2=A0 (Lojban): lo balni be lo vi dinju
Etymology:
=C2=A0 Chinese: iantai
=C2=A0 English: balkani
=C2=A0 Hindi: baramda
=C2=A0 Spanish: balkon
=C2=A0 Russian: balkon
=C2=A0 Arabic: curfa
Notes:

Some points are rather advanced, and it will maybe be necessary to modify/improve/remove them.

mu'o mi'e la .na'urs.



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