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[2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id lg9si330085qcb.1.2015.05.28.07.47.15 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 May 2015 07:47:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233; Received: by mail-qg0-x233.google.com with SMTP id 2so17605989qgf.3 for ; Thu, 28 May 2015 07:47:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.55.41.147 with SMTP id p19mr6050253qkp.78.1432824434918; Thu, 28 May 2015 07:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from seas760.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu ([2607:f470:6:400d:657a:85f6:2e33:ee74]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 9sm1137264qhy.1.2015.05.28.07.47.13 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 28 May 2015 07:47:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 10:47:15 -0400 From: Alex Burka To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <55647BCD.8060008@gmail.com> <55661E01.8030707@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [bpfk] Lojban word definitions style guidelines X-Mailer: Airmail Beta (308) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="55672a73_fa5a08d_8eb0" X-Original-Sender: durka42@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=durka42@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 972099695765 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Spam-Score: -3.0 (---) X-Spam_score: -3.0 X-Spam_score_int: -29 X-Spam_bar: --- --55672a73_fa5a08d_8eb0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On May 28, 2015 at 2:07:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna (gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com) = wrote: Some of those guidelines would be better implemented by extending JVS db mo= del. Also if we put variable types in brackets then nothing else should be = in brackets. Similarly, examples aren't supported by JVS 1.0 in a nice way. Also while creating my dictionary I used "glosswords" to reflect English no= uns. Using a separate field to gloss gismu as verbs would also be nice. not a necessary distinction in Lojban Also etymology somewhat contradicts my proposal:=C2=A0https://github.com/lo= jban/jbovlaste/issues/131=C2=A0where we have etymology only in Lojban where= as for the other languages they can be generated by third party software li= ke those that produce printable dictionaries. Uh, what are they generating from, then? 2015-05-27 22:41 GMT+03:00 Ilmen=C2=A0: coi ro do A couple of weeks ago, Naours (aka Xelan) suggested to make an official set= of style guidelines for Lojban word definitions, in order to have definiti= ons that look better and have a consistent style across the dictionary. Those guidelines would also aim at reducing the use of slashes '/' in defin= itions, favoring the use of the gloss fields for listing natural language e= quivalent words or expressions. The rational for this is that slashes make = definitions more clunky and less pretty, and the result can be awkward in l= anguages with inflectional agreements. Below is Naours' proposal, translated from French and slightly modified/adj= usted by me (hopefully without misrepresenting the idea of its author). mu'o mi'e la .ilmen. =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2= =88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88= =92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92= =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2= =88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92 Propositions: *=C2=A0Most important points: =E2=86=92=C2=A0Each definition must have a clear description. Slashes '/' s= hould be avoided as much as possible, as they hinder comprehension and make= definitions look awkward. =E2=86=92=C2=A0Each definition must have a simple description: the descript= ion is written using simple terms, even if that leads to more verbosity. =E2=86=92=C2=A0Each definition must have a description as generic as possib= le: only one term per concept, as generic as possible for encompassing the = other appropriate terms. =E2=86=92=C2=A0Every terms corresponding to the described concept are recor= ded in the gloss fields. =E2=86=92=C2=A0The etymologies are presented along with the definition in o= rder to retain the term and its origin. =E2=86=92=C2=A0The various sumti types must be specified between parenthese= s: =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Proposition (bridi abstractor - lo du'u) =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Event (action or state; event abstractor - lo = nu) =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Property/dimension (property abstractor - lo k= a) =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =E2=80=94 Quantity (quantity abstractor - lo ni) *=C2=A0Points that may need to be further discussed: =E2=86=92=C2=A0The sumti are described using singular definite articles. Expected results example: balni (gimsu) Description: x1 is a platform overhanging on facade x2 Gloss: {balcony, overhang, ledge, shelf} Exemple 1: =C2=A0 (English): This is a balcony =C2=A0 (Lojban): ti balni Exemple 2: =C2=A0 (English): The balcony of this building =C2=A0 (Lojban): lo balni be lo vi dinju Etymology: =C2=A0 Chinese: iantai =C2=A0 English: balkani =C2=A0 Hindi: baramda =C2=A0 Spanish: balkon =C2=A0 Russian: balkon =C2=A0 Arabic: curfa Notes: Some points are rather advanced, and it will maybe be necessary to modify/i= mprove/remove them. mu'o mi'e la .na'urs. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to=C2=A0bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to=C2=A0bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at=C2=A0http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit=C2=A0https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to=C2=A0bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to=C2=A0bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at=C2=A0http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit=C2=A0https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --55672a73_fa5a08d_8eb0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline =



On May 28, 2015 at 2:07:38 AM, Gleki Arxokuna (gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com) wrote:

<= div>
Some of those guidelines would be better im= plemented by extending JVS db model. Also if we put variable types in brack= ets then nothing else should be in brackets.
Similarly, examples aren't= supported by JVS 1.0 in a nice way.
Also while creating my dicti= onary I used "glosswords" to reflect English nouns. Using a separate field = to gloss gismu as verbs would also be nice.
<= /blockquote>

not a necessary distinction in Lojban


Also etymology somewhat c= ontradicts my proposal: https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/131 where we have etymology only in Loj= ban whereas for the other languages they can be generated by third party so= ftware like those that produce printable dictionaries.

Uh, what are they generating from, th= en?



<= /div>

2015-0= 5-27 22:41 GMT+03:00 Ilmen <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com>:
coi ro do

A = couple of weeks ago, Naours (aka Xelan) suggested to make an official set o= f style guidelines for Lojban word definitions, in order to have definition= s that look better and have a consistent style across the dictionary.
Those guidelines would also aim at reducing the use of slashes '/' in def= initions, favoring the use of the gloss fields for listing natural language= equivalent words or expressions. The rational for this is that slashes mak= e definitions more clunky and less pretty, and the result can be awkward in= languages with inflectional agreements.

Below is Naours' proposal, = translated from French and slightly modified/adjusted by me (hopefully with= out misrepresenting the idea of its author).

mu'o mi'e la .ilmen.
=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88= =92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92= =E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2= =88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88= =92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92=E2=88=92

Propositions:

* Most important poi= nts:
=E2=86=92 = Each definition must have a clear description. Slashes '/' should be avoide= d as much as possible, as they hinder comprehension and make definitions lo= ok awkward.
=E2=86=92 = Each definition must have a simple description: the description is w= ritten using simple terms, even if that leads to more verbosity.
=E2= =86=92 Each definitio= n must have a description as generic as possible: only one term per concept= , as generic as possible for encompassing the other appropriate terms.
<= b>=E2=86=92 Every ter= ms corresponding to the described concept are recorded in the gloss fields.=
=E2=86=92 The = etymologies are presented along with the definition in order to retain the = term and its origin.
=E2=86=92 The various sumti types must be specified between parenthes= es:
    =E2=80=94 Proposition (bridi abstractor - lo du'u= )
    =E2=80=94 Event (action or state; event abstractor = - lo nu)
    =E2=80=94 Property/dimension (property abstr= actor - lo ka)
    =E2=80=94 Quantity (quantity abstracto= r - lo ni)

* Points that may need to be further discussed:
=E2=86=92 The sumti are described using si= ngular definite articles.

Expected results example:
balni (gimsu)
Description: x1 is a platform overhanging on facade x= 2
Gloss: {balcony, overhang, ledge, shelf}
Exemple 1:
  (Engl= ish): This is a balcony
  (Lojban): ti balni
Exemple 2:
 = ; (English): The balcony of this building
  (Lojban): lo balni be l= o vi dinju
Etymology:
  Chinese: iantai
  English: balka= ni
  Hindi: baramda
  Spanish: balkon
  Russian: ba= lkon
  Arabic: curfa
Notes:

Some points are rather advanc= ed, and it will maybe be necessary to modify/improve/remove them.

mu= 'o mi'e la .na'urs.

<= br>

<= /font>
--
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

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