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Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2015 20:15:24 -0400
From: Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [bpfk] Grammar of letterals and numerals in {li}
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I agree the {abu boi reroi broda} thing is annoying, but... it's just a ter=
minator. There are a lot of places in Lojban where you have to remember to =
un-elide terminators in certain situations. I'm not sure this one is annoyi=
ng _enough_ to change the grammar.

FWIW, la zipcpi's mid-way proposal would be to do the separation for "bare"=
 lerfu/number strings (btw I guess we have to change the definition of {ler=
fu} if this goes through) but leave mex alone, so {cy ci .ibu} would be two=
 sumti while {li cy ci .ibu} would be one, in other words {li} would take a=
ny number of number-strings and/or lerfu-strings, similar to how {la} takes=
 any number of cmevla. It would avoid any changes to mex and preserve thing=
s like that really nice date format proposal. On the other hand it reduces =
consistency a tiny bit.

mu'o mi'e durkavore

On June 2, 2015 at 5:41:38 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas (jjllambias@gmail.com) w=
rote:


On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Bob LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
On 6/2/2015 4:54 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote:
Only "li R2D2", because "R2D2" would no longer be a valid lerfu-string.

So you are claiming that Lojban would not be usable to translate "Star Wars=
"?

Of course I'm not claiming anything like that.=C2=A0 In Spanish, BTW, RTD2 =
is called "Arturito", not "Erre dos de dos".

If a string can be expressed or written, then it is inherently "valid" as a=
 string, even if it meaningless.

=C2=A0Not sure what that means, but using "no bu", "pa bu", "re bu", etc to=
 read digits as characters might help there.=C2=A0

More important to me is actually used stuff, like lerfu pronouns around qua=
ntifiers, MOI-selbri, and ROI-tenses.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -web=
kit-line-break: after-white-space;"><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"f=
ont-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; color: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: =
0px; line-height: auto;">I agree the {abu boi reroi broda} thing is annoyin=
g, but... it's just a terminator. There are a lot of places in Lojban where=
 you have to remember to un-elide terminators in certain situations. I'm no=
t sure this one is annoying _enough_ to change the grammar.</div><div id=3D=
"bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; col=
or: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;"><br></div><div id=3D"=
bloop_customfont" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px; colo=
r: rgba(0,0,0,1.0); margin: 0px; line-height: auto;">FWIW, la zipcpi's mid-=
way proposal would be to do the separation for "bare" lerfu/number strings =
(btw I guess we have to change the definition of {lerfu} if this goes throu=
gh) but leave mex alone, so {cy ci .ibu} would be two sumti while {li cy ci=
 .ibu} would be one, in other words {li} would take any number of number-st=
rings and/or lerfu-strings, similar to how {la} takes any number of cmevla.=
 It would avoid any changes to mex and preserve things like that really nic=
e date format proposal. On the other hand it reduces consistency a tiny bit=
.</div> <div><br></div>mu'o mi'e durkavore<br> <div id=3D"bloop_sign_143328=
9203905476096" class=3D"bloop_sign"></div> <br><p class=3D"airmail_on" styl=
e=3D"color:#000;">On June 2, 2015 at 5:41:38 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas (<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:jjllambias@gmail.com">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>) wrote:</p> <bl=
ockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"clean_bq"><span><div><div></div><div>


<title></title>


<div dir=3D"ltr"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>
<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 2, 2015 at 6:34 PM, Bob
LeChevalier <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.org" targ=
et=3D"_blank">lojbab@lojban.org</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D"">On 6/2/2015 4:54 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas
wrote:<br></span>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<span class=3D"">Only "li R2D2", because "R2D2" would no longer be a
valid lerfu-string.<br></span></blockquote>
<span class=3D""><br></span> So you are claiming that Lojban would
not be usable to translate "Star Wars"?<br></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Of course I'm not claiming anything like that.&nbsp; In
Spanish, BTW, RTD2 is called "Arturito", not "Erre dos de
dos".</div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">If
a string can be expressed or written, then it is inherently "valid"
as a string, even if it meaningless.</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>&nbsp;Not sure what that means, but using "no bu", "pa bu",
"re bu", etc to read digits as characters might help
there.&nbsp;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>More important to me is actually used stuff, like lerfu
pronouns around quantifiers, MOI-selbri, and
ROI-tenses.<br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>mu'o mi'e xorxes</div>
<div><br></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</div></div></span></blockquote></body></html>

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