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Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 01:39:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: la gleki <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
To: BPFK <bpfk-list@googlegroups.com>
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References: <391988c7-80ac-45c1-9549-8c22ebf6a113@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [bpfk] Re: Officially updating "Complete Lojban Language" grammar
 book. An official LLG proposal passed. Your help needed.
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Notice, the proposal passed on June 26, 2019 at 2:38 am UTC therefore the 
two-month period ends on August 26, 2019 at 238 UTC.

Em quarta-feira, 26 de junho de 2019 13:36:19 UTC+3, la gleki escreveu:
>
> LLG needs your feedback on updating the reference grammar of Lojban. If 
> you are a fluent speaker of Lojban or a member of LLG please share your 
> feedback (in case you are a fluent speaker please reply in Lojban + 
> optionally in English). Notice: your publicly visible ID, nickname, email 
> will be recorded for future reference by LLG.
>
> The document 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIaiw/edit# contains 
> a list of proposed changes. Text with green background denotes additions to 
> the text, text with red background denotes deletions from the text.
>
> If you are not a fluent speaker still please have a look at the document 
> and share your thoughts.
>
> Here is the full text of the proposal passed at the meeting of the Logical 
> Language Group and published at 
> https://framateam.org/signup_user_complete/?id=17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw in 
> "LLG Members Meeting 2018" channel:
> ----
> Veto mode of updating CLL:
> Premises: CLL should be updated quickly. Many mistypes were recorded 15 
> years ago or more. 2.5 years ago we were technically ready to merge them 
> into the text of CLL. But still no updates to CLL
> Proposed solution in short: a one-time job with most hard work delegated 
> to Gleki, with minimum possible effort from anyone else. Gleki asks LLG 
> voting members, John W. Cowan, the author of the first edition of CLL, and 
> fluent speakers if a collection of mistypes is okay or not and after 
> getting the feedback compiles a new version of CLL and presents it to LLG 
> for verification and approval.
> Proposed solution in detail:
> the document 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIaiw/edit# contains 
> a list of proposed changes. Text with green background  denotes additions 
> to the text, text with red background denotes deletions from the text.
>
> Any voting member of LLG or John W. Cowan, the author of the first edition 
> of CLL, and any fluent speaker of Lojban can veto any of these changes by 
> naming each of vetoed changes individually. In case a fluent speaker vetoes 
> a change this vetoing must be done in Lojban and optionally in English by 
> providing reasons why this change should not be applied. In case a voting 
> member of LLG or John W. Cowan vetoes a change the member or John W. Cowan 
> must provide in English their reasons why this change should not be 
> applied. The replier must be informed beforehand that their replies with 
> their publicly visible IDs, names, nicknames will be publicly logged by LLG 
> for future reference.
> Who is "fluent speaker of Lojban"? Any person who can speak grammatically 
> correct Lojban and who can be understood by any LLG member who is a fluent 
> speaker too. Veto mode minimizes possible scenarios when such a fluent 
> speaker disagrees with a change to CLL but some malicious person pretends 
> that he/she/ze/they don't understand that a veto was made. In  such cases 
> any other LLG member or fluent speaker can translate the veto or even veto 
> a change themselves instead of that person.
>
> Changes are either vetoed or not. No change to the document is allowed 
> (which means in future new documents may appear for amended changes but for 
> this one-time job the document is final)
> LLG waits for 2 months since the adoption of this proposal for any veto 
> votes.
> In 2 months in case at least one non-vetoed change is left LLG announces 
> that changes are ready to be merged and delegates Gleki the right to merge 
> exactly non-vetoed changes with exactly the changes provided in the 
> document into CLL version 1.1 thus turning it into CLL version 1.2, and put 
> a duty on Gleki to produce within one month pdf, epub,mobi, html versions 
> of CLL 1.2 and within 6 months to produce (accepting help from Robin Lee 
> Powell if provided) a paper version of CLL 1.2 using either existing LLG 
> account on Amazon or creating a new account but providing the Treasurer and 
> the President with all the credentials to such new Amazon account.
> Once Gleki produces a new electronic version of CLL 1.2 he is obliged to 
> immediately present it to LLG for official approval.
> LLG approves or rejects the resulting electronic candidate CLL versions.
> Approving the paper version of CLL 1.2 is out of the scope of this 
> proposal (should physical copies of CLL 1.2 be sent to all LLG members? 
> Highly unlikely and hasn't been done ever as far as i know)
>
> le ve cusku (means of transferring veto replies): in case of LLG member 
> this chat is okay. In case of fluent Lojban speakers any publicly logged 
> and accessible to any LLG member means of communication is okay. Among 
> those are:
>
> #lojban, #ckule,#jbosnu Freenode IRC channels.
> https://www.facebook.com/groups/lojban/
> this Framateam Mattermost channel
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban
> any page of mw.lojban.org
> Non-formal procedures: anyone is encouraged to publish this proposal 
> wherever allowed once this proposal passes.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Notice, the proposal passed on June 26, 2019 at 2:38 am UT=
C therefore the two-month period ends on August 26, 2019 at 238 UTC.<br><br=
>Em quarta-feira, 26 de junho de 2019 13:36:19 UTC+3, la gleki  escreveu:<b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;borde=
r-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>LLG needs =
your feedback on updating the reference grammar of Lojban. If you are a flu=
ent speaker of Lojban or a member of LLG please share your feedback (in cas=
e you are a fluent speaker please reply in Lojban + optionally in English).=
 Notice: your publicly visible ID, nickname, email will be recorded for fut=
ure reference by LLG.</div><div><br></div><div><div>The document=C2=A0<a hr=
ef=3D"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7Aqd=
jlTisxIaiw/edit#" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.hr=
ef=3D&#39;https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb=
7AqdjlTisxIaiw/edit#&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https:/=
/docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIaiw/ed=
it#&#39;;return true;">https://docs.google.<wbr>com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_=
<wbr>W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIa<wbr>iw/edit#</a>=C2=A0contains a list o=
f proposed changes. Text with green background denotes additions to the tex=
t, text with red background denotes deletions from the text.</div><div><br>=
</div></div><div>If you are not a fluent speaker still please have a look a=
t the document and share your thoughts.</div><div><br></div>Here is the ful=
l text of the proposal passed at the meeting of the Logical Language Group =
and published at=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://framateam.org/signup_user_complete=
/?id=3D17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" onmou=
sedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Ffr=
amateam.org%2Fsignup_user_complete%2F%3Fid%3D17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw\x26=
sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFOIBm5O5uWIwgQXARzvVxrk8Tnpg&#39;;retu=
rn true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps=
%3A%2F%2Fframateam.org%2Fsignup_user_complete%2F%3Fid%3D17b4ir6u6by6px693dm=
8kmy7yw\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFOIBm5O5uWIwgQXARzvVxrk8Tnp=
g&#39;;return true;">https://framateam.org/<wbr>signup_user_complete/?id=3D=
<wbr>17b4ir6u6by6px693dm8kmy7yw</a>=C2=A0in &quot;LLG Members Meeting 2018&=
quot; channel:<div>----</div><div><div>Veto mode of updating CLL:</div><div=
>Premises: CLL should be updated quickly. Many mistypes were recorded 15 ye=
ars ago or more. 2.5 years ago we were technically ready to merge them into=
 the text of CLL. But still no updates to CLL</div><div>Proposed solution i=
n short: a one-time job with most hard work delegated to Gleki, with minimu=
m possible effort from anyone else. Gleki asks LLG voting members, John W. =
Cowan, the author of the first edition of CLL, and fluent speakers if a col=
lection of mistypes is okay or not and after getting the feedback compiles =
a new version of CLL and presents it to LLG for verification and approval.<=
/div><div>Proposed solution in detail:</div><div>the document=C2=A0<a href=
=3D"https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7Aqdjl=
TisxIaiw/edit#" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=
=3D&#39;https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7A=
qdjlTisxIaiw/edit#&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://d=
ocs.google.com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIaiw/edit=
#&#39;;return true;">https://docs.google.<wbr>com/document/d/1TjgmRNRraQ_<w=
br>W76Eh9XJfstCOaAunb7AqdjlTisxIa<wbr>iw/edit#</a>=C2=A0contains a list of =
proposed changes. Text with green background=C2=A0 denotes additions to the=
 text, text with red background denotes deletions from the text.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>Any voting member of LLG or John W. Cowan, the author of the=
 first edition of CLL, and any fluent speaker of Lojban can veto any of the=
se changes by naming each of vetoed changes individually. In case a fluent =
speaker vetoes a change this vetoing must be done in Lojban and optionally =
in English by providing reasons why this change should not be applied. In c=
ase a voting member of LLG or John W. Cowan vetoes a change the member or J=
ohn W. Cowan must provide in English their reasons why this change should n=
ot be applied. The replier must be informed beforehand that their replies w=
ith their publicly visible IDs, names, nicknames will be publicly logged by=
 LLG for future reference.</div><div>Who is &quot;fluent speaker of Lojban&=
quot;? Any person who can speak grammatically correct Lojban and who can be=
 understood by any LLG member who is a fluent speaker too. Veto mode minimi=
zes possible scenarios when such a fluent speaker disagrees with a change t=
o CLL but some malicious person pretends that he/she/ze/they don&#39;t unde=
rstand that a veto was made. In=C2=A0 such cases any other LLG member or fl=
uent speaker can translate the veto or even veto a change themselves instea=
d of that person.</div><div><br></div><div>Changes are either vetoed or not=
. No change to the document is allowed (which means in future new documents=
 may appear for amended changes but for this one-time job the document is f=
inal)</div><div>LLG waits for 2 months since the adoption of this proposal =
for any veto votes.</div><div>In 2 months in case at least one non-vetoed c=
hange is left LLG announces that changes are ready to be merged and delegat=
es Gleki the right to merge exactly non-vetoed changes with exactly the cha=
nges provided in the document into CLL version 1.1 thus turning it into CLL=
 version 1.2, and put a duty on Gleki to produce within one month pdf, epub=
,mobi, html versions of CLL 1.2 and within 6 months to produce (accepting h=
elp from Robin Lee Powell if provided) a paper version of CLL 1.2 using eit=
her existing LLG account on Amazon or creating a new account but providing =
the Treasurer and the President with all the credentials to such new Amazon=
 account.</div><div>Once Gleki produces a new electronic version of CLL 1.2=
 he is obliged to immediately present it to LLG for official approval.</div=
><div>LLG approves or rejects the resulting electronic candidate CLL versio=
ns.</div><div>Approving the paper version of CLL 1.2 is out of the scope of=
 this proposal (should physical copies of CLL 1.2 be sent to all LLG member=
s? Highly unlikely and hasn&#39;t been done ever as far as i know)</div><di=
v><br></div><div>le ve cusku (means of transferring veto replies): in case =
of LLG member this chat is okay. In case of fluent Lojban speakers any publ=
icly logged and accessible to any LLG member means of communication is okay=
. Among those are:</div><div><br></div><div>#lojban, #ckule,#jbosnu Freenod=
e IRC channels.</div><div><a href=3D"https://www.facebook.com/groups/lojban=
/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https=
://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2Flojban=
%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFcXATVr7bjusexRy0tKRO31qQygQ=
9;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;https://www.google.com/url?q\x=
3dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fgroups%2Flojban%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3=
d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNFcXATVr7bjusexRy0tKRO31qQygQ&#39;;return true;">https://=
www.facebook.com/<wbr>groups/lojban/</a></div><div>this Framateam Mattermos=
t channel</div><div><a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojb=
an" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http=
s://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"th=
is.href=3D&#39;https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban&#39;;return t=
rue;">https://groups.google.com/<wbr>forum/#!topic/lojban</a></div><div>any=
 page of=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/" rel=3D"nofollow" target=3D"=
_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://www.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp=
%3A%2F%2Fmw.lojban.org%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHUUvMRPbL=
1u-PAUd_H2DqPG6qEnA&#39;;return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D&#39;http://w=
ww.google.com/url?q\x3dhttp%3A%2F%2Fmw.lojban.org%2F\x26sa\x3dD\x26sntz\x3d=
1\x26usg\x3dAFQjCNHUUvMRPbL1u-PAUd_H2DqPG6qEnA&#39;;return true;">mw.lojban=
.org</a></div><div>Non-formal procedures: anyone is encouraged to publish t=
his proposal wherever allowed once this proposal passes.</div></div></div><=
/blockquote></div>

<p></p>

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