From nobody@chain.digitalkingdom.org Thu Dec 21 11:36:41 2006 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list bpfk-announce); Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:36:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GxTia-00045A-2C for bpfk-announce-real@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:36:40 -0800 Received: from express.cec.wustl.edu ([128.252.21.16]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from ) id 1GxTiU-00044O-3N for bpfk-announce@lojban.org; Thu, 21 Dec 2006 11:36:39 -0800 Received: from hive.cec.wustl.edu (hive.cec.wustl.edu [128.252.21.14]) by express.cec.wustl.edu (8.13.6/8.12.5) with ESMTP id kBLJaRLn019832 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:36:27 -0600 (CST) Received: from hive.cec.wustl.edu (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by hive.cec.wustl.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id kBLJZDYo019847; Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:35:13 -0600 Received: from localhost (adam@localhost) by hive.cec.wustl.edu (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) with ESMTP id kBLJZDla019844; Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:35:13 -0600 X-Authentication-Warning: hive.cec.wustl.edu: adam owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 13:35:13 -0600 (CST) From: "Adam D. Lopresto" To: bpfk-announce@lojban.org Subject: [bpfk-announce] Re: BPFK In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <458771EE.9020108@lojban.org> <925d17560612210843r5ab7aa06x884e3c82a43fc6ae@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Score-Int: -25 X-Spam-Bar: -- X-archive-position: 134 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: bpfk-announce-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: bpfk-announce-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: adam@pubcrawler.org Precedence: bulk Reply-to: bpfk-announce@lojban.org X-list: bpfk-announce On Thu, 21 Dec 2006, Matt Arnold wrote: > On 12/21/06, Adam D. Lopresto wrote: > > > > Actually, what I had in mind was more like your vocabulary game. I'd really > > like to see a good compendium of good lojban usage, ideally encompassing > > usage of all the cmavo (and all the uses of all of them, for those that have > > more than one, like {bo} and {jai}), as well as all the places for all the > > gismu. > > > > That's a grand vision. In the meantime, I was thinking more of asking > > people > > to contribute usage examples. I'm not at all sure about putting them on the > > unshepherded BPFK sections. Specifically, I fear it would look too > > official. > > That's fine. If I recall correctly, you dislike jboselkei because > unqualified reviewers can mark down a good translation without an > explanation. That is a flaw of a system that has vast potential that > its inventor didn't intend. Almost. I still like jboselkei, but I'm annoyed by the fact that I can't reply to reviews. So someone can post a review saying something like "{le}, not {la} should prefix {lunra} -- {lunra} is a gismu not a {cmene}" and there's no way for me to respond back about the difference between cmene and cmevla, and why {la lunra} is just fine. (Taken from an actual usage; the score didn't bother me, but the lost opportunity to teach did.) > In my opinion, BPFK members reviews should be artificially weighted in the > scoring. I don't see that as necessary at all. It is, after all, just a game. > For a long time I have wanted there to be concordancing software for > jboselkei. As it stands now, I think nobody can even _see_ anything in > the site without logging in, including Google. I'd like to change that > and add jboselkei to the Lojban Custom Google Search (sisyjbo or > something?). That would be dandy. > If that concordancing feature is added to jboselkei, it can be a place > where good usage is enshrined, *and* bad usage is pointed out as what > not to do. It's already 90% of the way to what you want. I've never > come up with an idea that came closer, since the pixra game was going > to create gibberish. The real missing link is that jboselkei, at least as it currently describes itself, is about translating English to Lojban. So I can ask "translate 'foo'", but I can't ask "Please use the word {fu} in a sentence", without first thinking of an English sentence that I hope translates that way. There's nothing technically stopping it from being (ab)used that way, but if that's a goal a lot of the support text should probably be altered. > Your expansion on the concept of mini-proposals sounds great. When I > said "at least it would be better than nothing", I didn't aim for it > to be a replacement in the best-case or middle-case scenario. I was > acknowledging the worst-case scenario, and pointing out even in the > worst case we would be better off. je'e -- Adam Lopresto http://cec.wustl.edu/~adam/ Press any key to continue or any other key to quit.