From bpfk-list+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDQyNPlBBoE1qAZBw@googlegroups.com Tue Oct 12 15:42:44 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P5nYL-0003Gq-IE; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:44 -0700 Received: by wye20 with SMTP id 20sf457259wye.16 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=tXFBa8keju5tWfHD8vn5fvGYqgfJPjurCiCSAclbTSw=; b=S6IdCXL4RoU8u3H6mbKqWX+Z/EvE6Vp3X6beJGYrpEs795MYtjRTe7Eoz35Q+wtVtF bts6skm4brgCiwf5PtQht2vjenYeb0w/BlLuBRcpWGDJSfOIjSkwHbsKl5Hg7cs8T6A5 uWjdmCndxCVQi7wr4dr5a+hZ44Mgz724iFDX4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=AF98G8tnullXf3JvgLlV4H02T9QEtsQXWSWB6EyI0zEaTwLuSBV7jxRDURvVMXlJTe 1CLxKSJAGcGyp8U+qBxHVBneMl1d/42qPu1txOmy18WE+Wq6rpeHu59uzI+5GWco5a+G UxL9XrqiAXBt5wwL7A2v1gAY1JlRunBE++3DM= Received: by 10.216.237.9 with SMTP id x9mr1125062weq.11.1286923344941; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:24 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.238.19 with SMTP id z19ls181331weq.2.p; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.20.141 with SMTP id p13mr27853wep.11.1286923343688; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.20.141 with SMTP id p13mr27852wep.11.1286923343595; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f181.google.com (mail-wy0-f181.google.com [74.125.82.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id r4si2760428wec.6.2010.10.12.15.42.22; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:22 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.181; Received: by mail-wy0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 22so3202532wyf.26 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.146.65 with SMTP id g1mr7714138wbv.55.1286923341887; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:42:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4CB4A74F.9040003@lojban.org> References: <4CB2335F.7000606@lojban.org> <4CB253D0.1020806@lojban.org> <4CB3576C.2000009@lojban.org> <4CB48045.9050503@lojban.org> <4CB4A74F.9040003@lojban.org> Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 19:42:21 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] BPFK work From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:22 PM, Robert LeChevalier wro= te: > > =A0If the > language is defined to extend into multiple units called "text", the > boundaries between "text"s need to be unambiguous, and only a parser that > accurate reflects those boundaries is "correct". The language is not the texts, the language (or the grammar rather) is the generator of the texts. It can generate infinitely many different texts. The idea that it can only generate one text just doesn't make any sense. I don't even know what you mean by it. > Right now, there are no formal rules governing multiple texts and their > possible interactions. And that's just as it should be. There are also no rules in Lojban about how many bananas you can eat every day, or at what time you should take a shower, so why should there be any rules about how many texts you can produce, or when? It has nothing to do with the formal grammar. All the formal grammar does is tell you how to generate a correct Lojban text, not when to generate it, who you give it to, under what circumstances, and so on. >=A0Perhaps there should be, but I am inclined to think > we should wait till the BYFY finishes the simpler "single text" problem > we've been stuck on for years before making the job harder. Indeed. And we should avoid legislating on things that don't really have anything to do with what a grammar is supposed to do. >=A0In such a case, > discussing this problem at all right now is out of order. It's not even a problem, as far as I can see. > That being said, a new speaker may wish to explicitly append onto another > speaker's text. And who is going to stop them? Or a group of people may decide to play a game where each takes turns to say one word at a time and together they generate one valid Lojban text. You know that game, right? Who is going to stop them from doing that? Whether the result is a valid Lojban text or not won't depend on how it was generated. A normal conversation is a different game: one person generates a valid Lojban text, then a second person generates another valid Lojban text, and so on. And the meanings of the texts must have a certain coherence with each other for the conversation to be interesting. The only relevance of the formal grammar in this "conversation game" is to validate the text generated by each person. That's all. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.