From bpfk-list+bncCJXwn4e6DRDxx9jlBBoEPh-4pQ@googlegroups.com Wed Oct 13 14:26:35 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P68qF-0001a7-QU; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:34 -0700 Received: by fxm16 with SMTP id 16sf686742fxm.16 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=3v/60hWhlIjFN0TYx8TtmR2gKvLZSgAwcxrhPr0YEaU=; b=ZsD2IoDM7lL0OcoJOQ/ju7tlbW7B8JxaxwfxdiZ/nZ/D5bAo1On3M1ENfYlGwpwCLE 4EjLS0m30Kwb52MaDZcSw+VnOP0Muos0Yazsyp3UWqcLGnI7G66PfV2ixB/ofDvJPOY/ POf1kI+EedwtG3JQJ5kX5Kj3nrTuxVeGaPRL8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=CL6ipR4fmW49txuKwZYIC7kjRmEDzTdUG6xuOlz9KUH0nHSAwmI86hprF4Q0spF0FM 8szwJKX01TN4qHPtARm1FFdbun8FlTE9Ny9rcZz8iQ5ajWXIq2OE5UhL/9O6OO4JGhQC oSztwKD0ztN/k0UlUH8bkc8aF5lLdea4Hm6d8= Received: by 10.223.79.138 with SMTP id p10mr228248fak.17.1287005169276; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.137.193 with SMTP id x1ls708917bkt.0.p; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.146 with SMTP id t18mr430833bkk.20.1287005168567; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.80.146 with SMTP id t18mr430832bkk.20.1287005168529; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f43.google.com (mail-fx0-f43.google.com [209.85.161.43]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id u2si5554635bkd.6.2010.10.13.14.26.07; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.43 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.43; Received: by mail-fx0-f43.google.com with SMTP id 10so1272514fxm.16 for ; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.239.153.80 with SMTP id y16mr506109hbb.149.1287005167195; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:26:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.170.139 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Oct 2010 14:25:47 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <70c95ba0-9cc9-4639-8e30-5e486d25cf2b@q3g2000pra.googlegroups.com> From: Adam Lopresto Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 16:25:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] O HAI I FIXT UR LODGEBANZ To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: adamlopresto@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of adamlopresto@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.43 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=adamlopresto@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sounds like we're more or less in agreement over (1) and (3), then. So what would you use {ni} for? Also, "the length of the car" seems something important to be able to say, although I can't actually think of any use for it. CLL talks about {le ni le pixra cu blanu [kei]} as "the amount-of (the picture being-blue)", but doesn't give any place where that sumti would actually be useful. What am I overlooking? Maybe 2') "The length of the car amazed me." (mi manci lo lo karce cu clani) Feel free to provide a better example, or say flat out that there is never a use for "the length of the car". 2010/10/13 Jorge Llamb=EDas > > On Wed, Oct 13, 2010 at 3:04 PM, Adam Lopresto w= rote: > > So here are the use cases I can think of. If there are others, let me k= now. > > 1) "Frank is more blue than Bob." (la .frank. la .bab. zmadu lo > > ce'u blanu) > > 2) "The length of the car is 3 meters." (lo lo karce cu cl= ani > > cu mitre li ci) > > 3) "The number of things John invented amazes me." (mi manci lo > > la .djan. finti ) > > So how do we resolve all of these? > > This is how I would say those: > > (1) la .frank. la .bab. cu zmadu lo ka [ce'u] blanu > (2) lo karce cu mitre li ci lo ka [ce'u] clani > (3) mi manci lo du'u la .djan. cu finti xo kau da > > > For a while, I've been using {ni} as > > though it meant {su'u se la'u ma kau}, which seems to cover 1 and 2 (si= nce > > {su'u} could take a {ce'u} or not), but seems sloppy. > > I think I only use "ni" for "ka se la'u ma kau", so in none of the > above examples, although arguably it could be used in (1). > > I don't think I would use "ce'u" in (3). It might make sense if the > place structure of "manci" was "x1 is amazed at x2 due to its property > x3", in which case the "ce'u" of property x3 is where the x2 would > fall, but not as it is. > > > For 3, I'd have to use > > something like {su'u la .djan. ciska xo kau da} (possibly with somethin= g > > other than {su'u}), which may or may not be good. > > That's what I would do. > > > Can we at least agree that all three of these need to be representable > > somehow, but that they are not the same? > > I agree (1) and (3) are different. I don't think the length of the car > is much different from the blueness of Frank and Bob, though. (And I > wouldn't say that the length of the car is three meters in length. > Properties don't really have length.) > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "BPFK" group. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk= -list?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.