From bpfk-list+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDC697lBBoEqOXFIg@googlegroups.com Thu Oct 14 19:00:57 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P6ZbI-0007GO-U7; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:57 -0700 Received: by wyb39 with SMTP id 39sf132256wyb.16 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jj4+qNA10Yj44f5krZLaJ98E2yey5qBt+AOtdN0WbS8=; b=Nbmu5qzettxTaiSd86gKbbwJUcK5nV+1CNP0VC9M3qJYP39b/ov6I5ttE4rMa44S13 QaKcWoXeFFyVNPTv+j6afETHZTCq/yn8ASX4aoaEELzFPc6oQ4eiJWPRHTnX31K4LhHt NgEaqsKYtyNLWDOvT43LdQ5cQoy17R7Qm37tY= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=Vmlc5p59vAwA3hMdHHU9JypTRImjdIr7ovkoPYw0x/VgVhS3jIyUoe/SylKbRcdMRD XYzqDiPQEePxIeawsncj12i3ZVU4NOKVVZm9UCtyNLIegg9XFWH4uf/W3y2hY6H9/jOL J5Po4MXIlo6yxhdRhT5GR+JVbfdlLN6DHFAog= Received: by 10.216.232.5 with SMTP id m5mr78391weq.8.1287108034815; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:34 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.213.1 with SMTP id z1ls1307470weo.1.p; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.161.66 with SMTP id v44mr3486wek.7.1287108033968; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.161.66 with SMTP id v44mr3485wek.7.1287108033910; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wy0-f170.google.com (mail-wy0-f170.google.com [74.125.82.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l2si1078999weq.13.2010.10.14.19.00.32; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.170; Received: by mail-wy0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 23so230304wyf.29 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:32 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.127.130 with SMTP id g2mr213666wbs.67.1287108032674; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.145.130 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Oct 2010 19:00:32 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20101014221058.GC15812@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 23:00:32 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] BPFK work - getting it done. From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 10:44 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > 2010/10/14 Jorge Llamb=EDas >> >> And in any case, the "Durational (progressive/continuous) Aspects in >> Future" is "I will be going" as in "I will be singing". Don't confuse >> "I will be going (home)", =A0with "I will be going to (sing)", where >> "go" is used as an auxiliary. > > Yes. I know. I'm a native English speaker. I know the difference between = "I > will be going home" and "I will be going to sing". Of course you know how to use them!. But that has nothing to do with knowing the terminology to describe them. "Future progressive/continuous" refers to "I will be singing", not to "I will be going to sing". You read "I will be going" in the table and mistook it for "I will be going to". Whoever wrote that table made a bad mistake in choosing "go" as their example verb. Pointlessly confusing. > If you look at the chart > on the linked page, you'll see that /all/ of the entries have the word > "aspects" in them. Yes, in English (as in many other Indoeuropean languages) tense and aspect are intimately intertwined, but in Lojban they are clearly separated. > And obviously {baba} has nothing to do with a > destination. It is the stupidity of the English language using "will be > going to" that's the problem here. "Future progressive/continuous" for "will be going to" is simply wrong. You just misread the wikipedia table, it doesn't say that. > From the cmavo list at > http://www.lojban.org/publications/wordlists/cmavo_selmaho_order.txt: >> >> baba - PU* - will be going to - time tense: will be going to; >> (tense/modal) > > Personally, I'm in agreement with you. But I'm working on describing the > unfinished cmavo entries in the BPFK sections, this is one of the entries= , > and that's it's official definition, stupid as it is. There is a "to" in that definition. There is no "to" in the wikipedia table= . "Future continuous" is "ba (future) ca'o (continuous)" there is no way it can be "ba ba". "ba ba" is future in the future, and "will be going to" is a reasonable approximation, even though it is pointless to have it as a special definition. But it is not called what you are calling it. > I would like to at this time seek approval for removing the following > entries from the BPFK Section: Tense page: > > {baba}=B9 > {bapu}=B9 > {puba}=B9 > {pupu}=B9 > > {baca'a}=B2 > {caca'a}=B2 > {cajeba}=B2 > {puca'a}=B2 > {pujeba}=B2 > {pujeca}=B2 > {puza}=B2 > {puze'a}=B2 > {puze'i}=B2 > {puze'u}=B2 > {puzi}=B2 > {puzu}=B2 > > =B9 Official meaning differs from usage, as well as being non-intuitive. > =B2 Meaning is obvious given meaning of components and therefore does not= need > it's own entry. I fully support their removal. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.