From bpfk-list+bncCJ2UzZHuDRChmejlBBoEK7CYIA@googlegroups.com Sat Oct 16 13:36:01 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P7DTx-0001lJ-SH; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:36:01 -0700 Received: by wyb39 with SMTP id 39sf1146663wyb.16 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=NHqGFm+Os++JwS4LPcf401RDDrEUjJaZ0/k4fTaYMQ8=; b=ovqo4oALyQL6H3HSRIBe7WuRQpmoFbq1JpsCCjcFO3xUkXxeVo40u4rh27/Qb4wiH+ ehVtqFPehONbKG3bkjfRJlgJFmEX2V+YgbIu/B9n/ndz0b9/Nzu/VsV9BXQ17lIeU9mY qvfHlZBwGmI49Lc589oyuHQ8GYurrnE+vvA9k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=zOdjANF1jKbBhZd9I3E0Jq6xt4OxJE9RgtQD9Gilca/Jef991Wt8Czxj0IQeXwbg9f 7ZEV9xK9VUov8lOe2koBINCIl/GukOfBWujHHdXKw3islVE4SWTr3O4UQnAjCRNjUi7Q i9o4nVDyg5IgenJkPtHTu6t/MmtuNewj2eVDs= Received: by 10.216.12.7 with SMTP id 7mr345005wey.26.1287261345019; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.48.209 with SMTP id s17ls2172272bkf.2.p; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.24.70 with SMTP id u6mr199593bkb.7.1287261344503; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.24.70 with SMTP id u6mr199592bkb.7.1287261344477; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f49.google.com (mail-fx0-f49.google.com [209.85.161.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id z17si10417033bkb.3.2010.10.16.13.35.43; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.49; Received: by mail-fx0-f49.google.com with SMTP id 15so1370438fxm.36 for ; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.165.84 with SMTP id w20mr137023hbd.193.1287261343213; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.239.162.66 with HTTP; Sat, 16 Oct 2010 13:35:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4CB9EA14.50407@gmail.com> References: <70c95ba0-9cc9-4639-8e30-5e486d25cf2b@q3g2000pra.googlegroups.com> <9572835c-55f6-4644-be9b-dd9601570d8d@m35g2000prc.googlegroups.com> <4CB90A9A.3050302@gmail.com> <4CB9C5DE.9030707@gmail.com> <4CB9EA14.50407@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 17:35:43 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] Re: O HAI I FIXT UR LODGEBANZ From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Oct 16, 2010 at 3:08 PM, And Rosta wrote: > Jorge Llamb=EDas, On 16/10/2010 16:50: > >> A bigger problem may be that it only works for "ma kau", but not for >> "mo kau ", "xo kau", etc, which can neither be put in a prenex by >> themselves nor can they be assigned to a variable. >> >> Hmm... > > I may well be missing some key consideration, but the problem you describ= e > here seems more unfortunate than fatal. Right, I'm not saying it's fatal. There are workarounds, but they are longwinded. > My reasoning is as follows. > > Take _xo_, for example. In an ideal world, one would like there to be not > only _xo_ but also a bindable variable variety of PA, so that one can say > things like "For every cukta x mei, x is greater than 5" =3D "every group= of > books had a cardinality of more than 5", and "Ex nanmu x mei & ninmu x me= i" > =3D "There were as many men as there were women", and so forth. Instead, = to do > this sort of stuff you have to find a method that circumvents the need fo= r > PA -- a construction that means the same but uses KOhA instead. Actually lerfu sort of work as variables for PA, because they share many of their functions with PA: ro boi ny zo'u: ro da zo'u: ga nai da ny mei lo cukta gi li ny zmadu li mu su'o boi ny zo'u: ge lo nanmu cu ny mei gi lo ninmu cu ny mei > And whatever > that method is, it could also be used instead of _xo_. _Xo (kau/pau)_ wou= ld > remain merely a shorthand for that circumlocutory construction in cases > where the variable is bound in the innermost prenex (for _xo kau_) or the > outermost prenex within the scope of a rogative illocutionary operator (f= or > _xo (pau)_). I suppose something like: mi djuno lo du'u li xo kau goi ny zo'u ko'a jinvi lo du'u vei ny prenu cu zvati "I know how many people she thinks were there." But I'm not sure whether "mo", or worse "ji", can be sumtified that easily. > To recast that more succinctly, the problem of interrogatives reduces to = a > subtype of the problem of bindable variables. A solution to the larger > problem is needed, and that solution will generalize to its subtypes. Right. > Of course, there are additional considerations of elegance, avoidance of > verboseness, etc., but you can't address those additional considerations > without creating new words and constructions. Something to think about. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.