From bpfk-list+bncCN673cmqFBCelcjlBBoEQiRiRg@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 10 11:49:18 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P50xO-0006g2-Ng; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:49:17 -0700 Received: by gwj19 with SMTP id 19sf97118gwj.16 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:49:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=LKd4ixZKlKSjRN0gj8NW33ZNvnRovLnxUdj0fwqrvTs=; b=Gy/82h11WZTaFCqJgG0gDzKaLXb7CRYEvavoMwGjpOVg1PiDRzGoB7ALdRBgWUTi4J BYW7IXDw4ldYkT6+2X1sb78ZvydG3kDVvzRRXfNaSIeKvlMii5IKgDXYp9jQDYlhWp1b SHoBeIJaQFt2Oa1UaWE+y56PYXvPaFpATgCsI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=F8A3iWXqeR+d5OttdQWbP3QFjH28VTMol8y2eE2Gt0bxDKZI2KXHgmkKnqLTU49nsN rOvOTHXFSRkxYukZ4qyCoLfl9SQptIbm+nw1kZ0KSEypYJayLtvchwlqAES81XH0Q4jB /Y3dowNesBhr8GQjNriWP2PAl95TgVtisc0vY= Received: by 10.151.2.4 with SMTP id e4mr81081ybi.70.1286736542434; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.5.19 with SMTP id h19ls716537ybi.1.p; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.13.5 with SMTP id q5mr1237320ybi.8.1286736542126; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.13.5 with SMTP id q5mr1237319ybi.8.1286736542101; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao106.cox.net (eastrmmtao106.cox.net [68.230.240.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v9si2778507yba.11.2010.10.10.11.49.01; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.48; Received: from eastrmimpo03.cox.net ([68.1.16.126]) by eastrmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20101010184902.UXEI24165.eastrmmtao106.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:49:02 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.179.118.163]) by eastrmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id H6p11f00A3Xcbvq026p1pc; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:49:01 -0400 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=z6CBhH0tHruS0FbwYG+vLjSarkX/HqbUMpkqCCzoucY= c=1 sm=1 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=YpjZq_nMw51JFeD6pYgA:9 a=1UDYy1xu7fu8eAbjH6TTrpS2IdgA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4CB20ADF.6050500@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:50:07 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bpfk] BPFK work References: <4CB0B239.50107@lojban.org> <4CB1F3EA.5000608@lojban.org> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Robert LeChevalier w= rote: >=20 >>Actually, it would have to be fa'o lo zarci to be sure to end any prior t= ext >>before starting the new one. >=20 >=20 > This is the first time I hear about that. I'm pretty sure that the > standard line until now was that anything after fa'o was to be > ignored. It is ignored. It is not part of the same text. It may be part of a different text, though. The parser doesn't care=20 about any texts other than the one it is parsing. >> But then for most practical purposes, .i or >>ni'o are good enough. >=20 > But they are not. The two texts ".i mi gleki" and ".i go'i ra'o" > cannot be concatenated into one text without loss of meaning. The > single text ".i mi gleki .i go'i ra'o" does not have the same meaning > as the exchange of texts ".i mi gleki", ".i go'i ra'o". That is because the word ra'o has metalinguistic effect that overrides=20 the textual concatenation. >>"Back in the day" (makes me feel elderly to use that >>phrase), we thought that each exchange in formal Lojban conversation woul= d >>generally involve starting with .i or ni'o (recognizing that informally i= t >>would usually be left out). >=20 >=20 > The use of initial .i/ni'o makes little difference to this issue. It does when the people conversing are using sentence fragments. If I ask "ma klama" and you answer "mi", then we need at least a convention/protocol to know=20 whether that means the unbroken text "ma klama mi" or "ma klama [.i] mi=20 [go'i]". If the default is endless unbroken text (until an explicit=20 fa'o, .i, or ni'o), then in most actual Lojban usage, the sumti that=20 occur before a selbri would be understood as appending onto the end of=20 the last bridi spoken by the prior speaker. We probably don't want that because in actual usage, people have NOT=20 typically started their conversation turns with .i or ni'o. The=20 solution has to be metalinguistic; generally an implicit default=20 protocol with explicit ways to override that default, which is why I=20 suggested using either SEI or COI constructs. lojbab --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.