From bpfk-list+bncCN673cmqFBCmx8jlBBoEB7elzQ@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 10 13:36:06 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P52ck-0004a7-RZ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:36:06 -0700 Received: by gwj19 with SMTP id 19sf108658gwj.16 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:35:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:user-agent :x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1Er0H7kyCd11O/fd3V0ArKXwtpHqD888xYGCBrnDA5o=; b=am5xo1++O+hheG8WwUNs5nm78CLsfFCDR9ivU58emYmFsu7n133BJAMOGAhjoEBpnP mBlkNSWrNiQX17pIANBJy9hDXYYFMNs1+11lNnWn+IdoHLR38PEvyNR85IkSGT0TFMiX 9o2un3zVhYmgb6VKmVgf+RRrpLOPQwJLtPpeA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to :subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=6Gthb/vQmypaKtMVW5BcyqlMHRq22JpVqW2xbo7DFDYM1t7wiRmgnhBC1g8PkBGpzy MqHl1EysB8oEy/KJSOJhIYCMzDXLoKnfqMp+QuwfYbO7ZRIyPjKXJ2hFXxbJtPxvrEPZ I3I6XMBRyAkR6mLTyMaXDkEeNu9ZfGTnIvDlw= Received: by 10.150.171.15 with SMTP id t15mr472858ybe.29.1286742950496; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:35:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.5.19 with SMTP id h19ls730869ybi.1.p; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.44.8 with SMTP id w8mr846617ybj.44.1286742950296; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.151.44.8 with SMTP id w8mr846616ybj.44.1286742950277; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eastrmmtao106.cox.net (eastrmmtao106.cox.net [68.230.240.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id v9si2795950yba.3.2010.10.10.13.35.50; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 13:35:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.48; Received: from eastrmimpo03.cox.net ([68.1.16.126]) by eastrmmtao106.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.00.01.00 201-2244-105-20090324) with ESMTP id <20101010203549.WVGK24165.eastrmmtao106.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:35:49 -0400 Received: from [192.168.0.100] ([70.179.118.163]) by eastrmimpo03.cox.net with bizsmtp id H8bp1f00D3Xcbvq028bps1; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:35:49 -0400 X-VR-Score: -130.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=z6CBhH0tHruS0FbwYG+vLjSarkX/HqbUMpkqCCzoucY= c=1 sm=1 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:17 a=vPLiKE4xRMWqpd1lYcUA:9 a=26N-GqCETfdEkOztICLFv0_6hwYA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4CB223F7.1060402@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:37:11 -0400 From: Robert LeChevalier User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [bpfk] BPFK work References: <4CB0B239.50107@lojban.org> <4CB1F3EA.5000608@lojban.org> <4CB20ADF.6050500@lojban.org> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.48 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jorge Llamb=EDas wrote: > And presumably you should begin every turn of your conversations with > ".i mi'e .aionys." Otherwise, you can't use "mi" because in the text > you are expanding it (not your own text) "mi" already refers to a > different person. But I don't think I have noticed you doing that. Semantics and not syntax. Lojban should not pretend to have unambigious=20 semantics (regardless of how many speakers are involved). However, by=20 convention, absent of explicit mi'e, the referent of "mi" is the=20 speaker, and is not determined by the text that it is part of. ("Text"=20 being a syntactic and not a semantic concept). The problem I thought was being discussed was how to identify something=20 as syntactically part of someone else's text. What it "means" (what all=20 the variables refer to) is a separate problem that is probably insoluble. (In the pre-xorlo language, what I mean by "le broda" and what you mean=20 by "le broda" might two completely independent things whether they are=20 part of one text or not. My mind is not your mind, and what I have in=20 mind almost certainly is NOT the exact same concept as what you have in=20 mind, though we might use the same description "le broda" to describe=20 the same referent. I have no idea what xorlo does to this (and probably=20 don't want to try to know it %^).) lojbab --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.