From bpfk-list+bncCMHEmaCOBhCv5MjlBBoEC0nytw@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 10 14:38:07 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P53am-0007So-8N; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:38:07 -0700 Received: by gya1 with SMTP id 1sf2669926gya.16 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=4fx3lw6jBNhD4i9xcRUBNTaHncCMqzBqEP1e+sfm0u0=; b=qojF+P6N5gQNa0omYzUqjYUOhjwK6o6gt2RAGNxO4dVEVLBRnx6PO2hxJmvUNLXam2 i00xfBPfNAO/fhHMnm+VuSKhp+WOGpkIy7AYVrXf7KdXeTH+kO7kJ4U5yeoj4TFyhaaw nkr2yJvBAwb7GrXUH5p1Z6wcYUS9sv89ezSq0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=k1CxWy6Y9XBFCxseefxk6t4YCi8AAFCNd71792wtdHwKoJASMAxqlxiw/Lu7o4pvTO U2JPoIRXoav1qG03Ltxsd0W9aa5wtSlAa3QtQD9uNx/oxWMD0Xbtfv4Eq548b+AELxak uwmL1cgPEEeOvz8HoCu0S8HgrbZHIFz7vmdwI= Received: by 10.90.57.13 with SMTP id f13mr375129aga.9.1286746671810; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.112.41 with SMTP id u41ls1411344ibp.1.p; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.81 with SMTP id q17mr1362153ibx.12.1286746671577; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.161.81 with SMTP id q17mr1362152ibx.12.1286746671551; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f171.google.com (mail-iw0-f171.google.com [209.85.214.171]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b32si3526515ibq.5.2010.10.10.14.37.50; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.171; Received: by mail-iw0-f171.google.com with SMTP id 38so203899iwn.2 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.3.133 with SMTP id 5mr1534328ico.96.1286746670421; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.68 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 14:37:50 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:37:50 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: [bpfk] Re: {.i} and {ni'o}, continuation or new jufra From: Jonathan Jones To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.171 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016368e2c9434d80904924a0e4a --0016368e2c9434d80904924a0e4a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/10/10 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote= : > > > > The disadvantage is that my human brain has to mentally insert the elid= ed > > {.i}. > > There's no such thing as an elided ".i"! > ".i" is not an elidable word. > > > Not being a stupid machine, I am able to intuitively determine whether > > a person is continuing another persons text or merely not bothering to > start > > with {.i} based on context and the content of the two or more persons' > > speeches. Because the practice of eliding the intial {.i} is /ambiguous= /, > I > > don't do it myself. > > There is no practice of eliding ".i". There is no required initial > ".i". The separator ".i" is required between two sentences, it is not > required at the beginning of a text. > > If you are proposing a change to the language, please make it clear > that that is what you are doing. I make change proposals all the time, > but I try to keep distinct what my proposal is from what the official > rule is. Otherwise it gets confusing. Are you arguing for a change, or > are you explaining how you understand the language is currently > defined? There is no such thing as an elided ".i" in the current > language, and there is no rule that every new speaker just keeps > adding stuff to one single text in a conversation. > It is my understanding that {.i} is "optional" at the beginning of a new text. "Optional" in that context, means the same thing to me as elidable. > > The advantage is, it is both easy and possible to continue another > person's > > jufra by the simple method of /not/ beginning your speech with {.i}. > > Except when you want to continue it with ".i", which may be rare but > possible. That's what {di'ai} is for. > But then speakers completing other speaker's sentences is > also rare. And there are ways of doing it from your own text in any > case, for example with "go'i" which can bring a sentence from someone > else's text into your own and you can complete it there. > So you are willing to give up the useful property of texts of having a > speaker and an audience, for the rare occasions when someone wants to > complete someone else's sentences? > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > I don't agree that those properties are "given up". --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den. --0016368e2c9434d80904924a0e4a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/10/10 Jorge Llamb=EDas &l= t;jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 5:44 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The disadvantage is that my human brain has to mentally insert the eli= ded
> {.i}.

There's no such thing as an elided ".i"!
".i" is not an elidable word.

> Not being a stupid machine, I am able to intuitively determine whether=
> a person is continuing another persons text or merely not bothering to= start
> with {.i} based on context and the content of the two or more persons&= #39;
> speeches. Because the practice of eliding the intial {.i} is /ambiguou= s/, I
> don't do it myself.

There is no practice of eliding ".i". There is no required = initial
".i". The separator ".i" is required between two senten= ces, it is not
required at the beginning of a text.

If you are proposing a change to the language, please make it clear
that that is what you are doing. I make change proposals all the time,
but I try to keep distinct what my proposal is from what the official
rule is. Otherwise it gets confusing. Are you arguing for a change, or
are you explaining how you understand the language is currently
defined? There is no such thing as an elided ".i" in the current<= br> language, and there is no rule that every new speaker just keeps
adding stuff to one single text in a conversation.
It is my understanding that {.i} is "optional" at the beginning = of a new text. "Optional" in that context, means the same thing t= o me as elidable.
=A0
> The advantage is, it is both easy and possible to continue another per= son's
> jufra by the simple method of /not/ beginning your speech with {.i}.
Except when you want to continue it with ".i", which may be= rare but
possible.

That's what {di'ai} is for.
=A0
But then = speakers completing other speaker's sentences is
also rare. And there are ways of doing it from your own text in any
case, for example with "go'i" which can bring a sentence from= someone
else's text into your own and you can complete it there.

So you are willing to give up the useful property of texts of having a
speaker and an audience, for the rare occasions when someone wants to
complete someone else's sentences?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

I don't agree that= those properties are "given up".

--
mu&= #39;o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo p= ilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com.
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