From bpfk-list+bncCMHEmaCOBhD58MjlBBoExUwqcQ@googlegroups.com Sun Oct 10 15:04:56 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1P540j-0000Bn-1x; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:55 -0700 Received: by gwj19 with SMTP id 19sf117678gwj.16 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:47 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=xGCguo/c4U0gmq4hWrHI4VfMTkkgkIq+SSaB8WvrIRQ=; b=wJVTJ0+mzOTWA2blasyFdlNPJcphmNltzEYwMFRfAs9KnBEffY7E6PBR++xrLPmFcH +yY6icSoWORxYXfH1rRvP3XQyxiQpY23M28EzGJM2DlbNBlViGPo2VmGZgKYxnUqSkLs 23ZXr1dKE9/xaY6Vt9OBLWnaoUuLEA9xjqA6g= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=KHzQub42dJVmgOXT5CemoZZNWQ9fJJ6PFrVkTn5MC4XFkCCW+sXpj8t0MNUHQTCBY5 p0LYHtuS3R/7ArTHihHZXoRar5yMLNCPf09SIiIgXKkJCs8pXLd1yPvAL/quFFZZyIQ7 p+MygBkgmn8VQZHVu4U18gzbBZVc4Y4Fs2/og= Received: by 10.91.17.18 with SMTP id u18mr376462agi.5.1286748281110; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.123.203 with SMTP id q11ls1419629ibr.2.p; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.79.82 with SMTP id o18mr1411482ibk.15.1286748280890; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.79.82 with SMTP id o18mr1411481ibk.15.1286748280856; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-iw0-f174.google.com (mail-iw0-f174.google.com [209.85.214.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id bm7si3785518ibb.6.2010.10.10.15.04.39; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.174; Received: by iwn6 with SMTP id 6so3402002iwn.33 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.155.212 with SMTP id t20mr4187936ibw.37.1286748279319; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.231.206.68 with HTTP; Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:04:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 16:04:39 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] Re: {.i} and {ni'o}, continuation or new jufra From: Jonathan Jones To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016369c897a1aadfe04924a6e72 --0016369c897a1aadfe04924a6e72 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/10/10 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote= : > > > > It is my understanding that {.i} is "optional" at the beginning of a ne= w > > text. "Optional" in that context, means the same thing to me as elidabl= e. > > For some (admittedly rare) texts you don't have the option of adding > ".i" nor "ni'o" at the beginning. For example ".aionys." is a valid > text, ".i .aionys." is not. "nai" is a valid text, ".i nai." is not. > But I won't press this point because I would want both of those to be > valid. > > In any case, the optionality of initial ".i" is a different thing from > the elidable terminators. The elidable terminators in a sense can be > said to be there even when not explicit, the optional ".i/ni'o" is not > really there in the same sense. > > >> So you are willing to give up the useful property of texts of having a > >> speaker and an audience, for the rare occasions when someone wants to > >> complete someone else's sentences? > > > > I don't agree that those properties are "given up". > > Well, a text formed from a concatenated string of conversational texts > is no longer a se cusku with a well defined cusku and a well defined > te cusku. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > This is where the misunderstanding lies. I'm not talking about treating everything everyone says as though a single speaker said the entirety. I'm talking about whether or not to treat something said by one person and something said by another person as a single jufra, which means to me, the bit between two consecutive, non-quoted [I]'s. {.i lo broda cu brode lu .i broda lo brodi li'u .i li'o} is a sinlge jufra followed by one or more omitted jufra, as indicated by {li'o}. {la.alis.} is a single text. It is composed of a large multitude of jufra. These are not the same things. --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den. --0016369c897a1aadfe04924a6e72 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
2010/10/10 Jorge Llamb=EDas &l= t;jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It is my understanding that {.i} is "optional" at the beginn= ing of a new
> text. "Optional" in that context, means the same thing to me= as elidable.

For some (admittedly rare) texts you don't have the option of add= ing
".i" nor "ni'o" at the beginning. For example "= ;.aionys." is a valid
text, ".i .aionys." is not. "nai" is a valid text, &quo= t;.i nai." is not.
But I won't press this point because I would want both of those to be valid.

In any case, the optionality of initial ".i" is a different thing= from
the elidable terminators. The elidable terminators in a sense can be
said to be there even when not explicit, the optional ".i/ni'o&quo= t; is not
really there in the same sense.

>> So you are willing to give up the useful property of texts of havi= ng a
>> speaker and an audience, for the rare occasions when someone wants= to
>> complete someone else's sentences?
>
> I don't agree that those properties are &q= uot;given up".

Well, a text formed from a concatenated string of conversational text= s
is no longer a se cusku with a well defined cusku and a well defined
te cusku.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

This= is where the misunderstanding lies. I'm not talking about treating eve= rything everyone says as though a single speaker said the entirety. I'm= talking about whether or not to treat something said by one person and som= ething said by another person as a single jufra, which means to me, the bit= between two consecutive, non-quoted [I]'s.

{.i lo broda cu brode lu .i broda lo brodi li'u .i li'o} is a s= inlge jufra followed by one or more omitted jufra, as indicated by {li'= o}.

{la.alis.} is a single text. It is composed of a large multitude= of jufra. These are not the same things.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le= bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to= the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
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To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com.
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