From bpfk-list+bncCAAQ-vu96AQaBPeM5lU@googlegroups.com Mon Dec 20 08:02:42 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PUiBj-00052G-7c; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:02:41 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf3075712ywh.16 for ; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:02:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:mime-version:x-beenthere:received :received:received:received:received:received-spf:received:received :received:date:message-id:to:subject:from:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/Sz6w4a7eJ7s7e+DvSD1Kaa30dgh2WoqR4B8rybrHJM=; b=ciSzPNxqaDgNVVxlezhbTetUu0AKcSRfEPP0YXjdx+v14qDK0E1ag6QxEc7V5jG8YZ OgCxdKbRReqI542xUqHWSgMz2GJVhAucuKFi+tOx41Eaw4VtOrePIHMKCLkkfh6Q/1oy CTCYDKeG2f0vQwdA9eQdc4YcR1hrn0L+5aycU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=mime-version:x-beenthere:received-spf:date:message-id:to:subject :from:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=IcxnG69sn20tIvG8kG+QMISuqXXATjt6hFpY/expi+9oE7a7ynHBumtOEbCAGdpmtJ TcbjSssbDoWdIxn0gMsIUyNx5/3VnTAcW/3UsJSFYb1x+TVFX/G9nxXDFZnEUl4Ll+2x /ybOWDMhI2suQOjURL4iPirP2rDm3FRun96P4= Received: by 10.151.3.13 with SMTP id f13mr413347ybi.79.1292860922996; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:02:02 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.6.39 with SMTP id 39ls1205709ybf.4.p; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:02:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.146.1 with SMTP id y1mr876387ybn.30.1292860922519; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 08:02:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.139.15 with SMTP id m15mr3056541wfd.33.1292840467842; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.139.15 with SMTP id m15mr3056540wfd.33.1292840467808; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n6si3885894wfl.7.2010.12.20.02.21.07 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:21:07 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of nobody@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PUcrb-0000nJ-6I for bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:21:07 -0800 Received: from 128-177-28-49.ip.openhosting.com ([128.177.28.49] helo=oh-www1.lojban.org) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PUcrW-0000n3-8W for bpfk@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 02:21:07 -0800 Received: from www-data by oh-www1.lojban.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PUcrV-0006Y7-Io for bpfk@lojban.org; Mon, 20 Dec 2010 05:21:01 -0500 Date: Mon, 20 Dec 2010 05:21:01 -0500 Message-Id: To: bpfk@lojban.org Subject: [bpfk] dag-cll git updates for Mon Dec 20 05:21:01 EST 2010 From: www-data X-Original-Sender: www-data@oh-www1.lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of nobody@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nobody@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable commit 31dab8a55678a0856127432642e94f1eaa311117 Author: Robin Lee Powell Date: Mon Dec 20 02:13:23 2010 -0800 Even minorer update to glossing. diff --git a/todocbook/5.xml b/todocbook/5.xml index 19d267c..658f1ed 100644 --- a/todocbook/5.xml +++ b/todocbook/5.xml @@ -305,21 +305,21 @@ might be translate= d: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d5" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example5" /> ta cmalu bo nixli ckule - That is-a-small =96 girl school. + That is-a-small [] girl school. The=20 bo is represented in the literal translation by= a hyphen because in written English a hyphen is sometimes used for the same pur= pose:=20 a big dog-catcher would be quite different from a=20 big-dog catcher(presumably someone who catches only big= dogs). Analysis of=20 and=20 reveals a tanru ne= sted within a tanru. In=20 commit 01c3b100e587978138a606f83ee3e52670293675 Author: Robin Lee Powell Date: Mon Dec 20 02:00:11 2010 -0800 Veeery minor gloss tweaks. diff --git a/todocbook/5.xml b/todocbook/5.xml index 299d61f..19d267c 100644 --- a/todocbook/5.xml +++ b/todocbook/5.xml @@ -293,21 +293,21 @@ two brivla which are most closely associated. Therefore, a Lojban tran= slation of=20 would be: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d4" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example4" /> ta cmalu nixli bo ckule - That is-a-small girl =96 school. + That is-a-small girl [] school. might be translate= d: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d5" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example5" /> @@ -382,21 +382,21 @@ type-of is implicit in the Lojban tanru form, it has no= Lojban equivalent. Note: It is perfectly legal, though pointless, to insert=20 bo into a simple tanru: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d9" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example9" /> ta klama bo jubme - That is-a goer [] table. + That is-a-goer [] table. is a legal Lojban bridi that means exactly the same thing as=20 , and is ambiguous = in exactly the same ways. The cmavo=20 bo serves only to resolve grouping ambiguity: i= t says nothing about the more basic ambiguity present in all tanru.
Complex tanru grouping tanru groupingcomplex commit e503cc2a8f2e25f224530c0b756897919e3c35f9 Author: Robin Lee Powell Date: Mon Dec 20 01:41:43 2010 -0800 Couple of needs-doing notes. diff --git a/todocbook/TODO b/todocbook/TODO index ea6cc99..93a9c21 100644 --- a/todocbook/TODO +++ b/todocbook/TODO @@ -191,20 +191,24 @@ match) =20 You can find the full text of the original index in origcllindex.txt if you need it. =20 ------ =20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Data =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D +- Need some sort of structure for the per-section cmavo lists. + - also need to wrap the lojban words there in a way that does + indexing, and ideally auto-generation of the cmavo-per-selmaho + lists we want for chapter 20 - lojban words, lojban phrases, terms of art ("abstraction"), others?... should each have their own index - cll_chapter5-section1 should be content-words-brivla or so ; those IDs should not change when things are moved around - list the members of each selma'o in chapter 20 =20 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Display =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - links to examples should *say* "example N"; easy to test from the commit b4f10e3d2477ce36fa5a009bac86d970c86ada25 Author: Robin Lee Powell Date: Mon Dec 20 01:34:52 2010 -0800 Whoops, id uniqueness fix. diff --git a/todocbook/5.xml b/todocbook/5.xml index f7b6311..299d61f 100644 --- a/todocbook/5.xml +++ b/todocbook/5.xml @@ -351,21 +351,21 @@ means the same as= =20 . This is true no m= atter what three brivla are used: the leftmost two are always grouped togeth= er. This rule is called the=20 left-grouping rule. Left-grouping in seemingly ambiguou= s structures is quite common - though not universal - in other contexts = in Lojban. Another way to express the English meaning of=20 and=20 , using parentheses= to mark grouping, is: - + <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d7" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example7" /> ta cmalu [] nixli bo ckule That is-a-small type-of (girl type-of school). commit 44912e65d3f03bcc8607362ee3175b679e467b0e Author: Robin Lee Powell Date: Mon Dec 20 01:29:17 2010 -0800 Cleanup of 5.3 diff --git a/todocbook/5.xml b/todocbook/5.xml index d1982bf..f7b6311 100644 --- a/todocbook/5.xml +++ b/todocbook/5.xml @@ -231,163 +231,178 @@ are parallel tanru, in the sense that the relationship between= =20 barda and=20 prenu is the same as that between=20 cmalu and=20 prenu.=20 and=20 contain a partial listing = of some types of tanru, with examples.
Three-part tanru grouping with=20 - <quote>bo</quote> - tanru grouping= three-part - The following cmavo is discussed in this section: + bo + tanru groupingthree-part + The following cmavo is discussed in this section: bo BO closest scope grouping Consider the English sentence: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d1" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example1" /> - - That's a little girls' school. - + That's a little girls' school. What does it mean? Two possible readings are: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d2" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example2" /> + + That's a little school for girls. + + + <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d3" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example3" /> - - That's a little school for girls. - That's a school for little girls. - + That's a school for little girls. This ambiguity is quite different from the simple tanru ambiguit= y described in=20 . We understand that=20 girls' school means=20 a school where girls are the students, and not=20 a school where girls are the teachers or=20 a school which is a girl(!). Likewise, we understand th= at=20 little girl means=20 girl who is small. This is an ambiguity of grouping. Is= =20 girls' school to be taken as a unit, with=20 little specifying the type of girls' school? Or is=20 - little girl to be taken as a unit, specifying the type = of school? In English speech, different tones of voice, or exaggerated spee= ch rhythm showing the grouping, are used to make the distinction; English w= riting usually leaves it unrepresented. - -speech rhythm + little girl to be taken as a unit, specifying the type = of + school? In English speech, different tones of voice, or=20 + speech rhythmfor grouping in English + exaggerated speech rhythm showing the grouping, are used to make the + distinction; English writing usually leaves it unrepresented. tanru groupingwith bo Lojban makes no use of tones of voice for any purpose; explicit word= s are used to do the work. The cmavo=20 - bo(which belongs to selma'o BO) may be placed between t= he two brivla which are most closely associated. Therefore, a Lojban transl= ation of=20 + bo(which belongs to selma'o BO) may be placed b= etween the + two brivla which are most closely associated. Therefore, a Lojban tran= slation + of=20 would be: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d4" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example4" /> ta cmalu nixli bo ckule - That is-a-small girl =96 school. + That is-a-small girl =96 school. might be translate= d: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d5" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example5" /> ta cmalu bo nixli ckule - That is-a-small =96 girl school. + That is-a-small =96 girl school. The=20 - bo is represented in the literal translation by a hyphe= n because in written English a hyphen is sometimes used for the same purpos= e:=20 + bo is represented in the literal translation by= a hyphen + because in written English a hyphen is sometimes used for the same pur= pose:=20 a big dog-catcher would be quite different from a=20 big-dog catcher(presumably someone who catches only big= dogs). Analysis of=20 and=20 reveals a tanru ne= sted within a tanru. In=20 , the main tanru ha= s a seltau of=20 - cmalu and a tertau of=20 - nixli bo ckule; the tertau is itself a tanru with=20 - nixli as the seltau and=20 - ckule as the tertau. In=20 + cmalu and a tertau of=20 + nixli bo ckule; the tertau is itself a tanru wi= th=20 + nixli as the seltau and=20 + ckule as the tertau. In=20 , on the other hand= , the seltau is=20 - cmalu bo nixli(itself a tanru), whereas the tertau is= =20 - ckule. This structure of tanru nested within tanru form= s the basis for all the more complex types of selbri that will be explained= below. - -tanru nested within tanru - -basis + cmalu bo nixli(itself a tanru), whereas the ter= tau is=20 + ckule.=20 + tanru nested within tanru + This structure of tanru nested within tanru forms the basis for all th= e more + complex types of selbri that will be explained below. What about=20 ? What does it mean= ? <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d6" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example6" /> ta cmalu nixli ckule - That is-a-small girl school. + That is-a-small girl school. The rules of Lojban do not leave this sentence ambiguous, as the= rules of English do with=20 . The choice made b= y the language designers is to say that=20 means the same as= =20 - . This is true no m= atter what three brivla are used: the leftmost two are always grouped toget= her. This rule is called the=20 - left-grouping rule. Left-grouping in seemingly ambiguou= s structures is quite common - though not universal - in other contexts in = Lojban. + . This is true no m= atter + what three brivla are used: the leftmost two are always grouped togeth= er. This + rule is called the=20 + left-grouping rule. Left-grouping in seemingly ambiguou= s + structures is quite common - though not universal - in other contexts = in + Lojban. Another way to express the English meaning of=20 and=20 , using parentheses= to mark grouping, is: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d7" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example7" /> + + + ta cmalu [] nixli bo ckule + That is-a-small type-of (girl type-of school). + + + + <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d8" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example8" /> - ta cmalu nixli bo ckule - That is-a-small type-of (girl type-of school). - ta cmalu bo nixli ckule - That is-a-(small type-of girl) type-of school. + ta cmalu bo nixli [] ckule + That is-a-(small type-of girl) type-of school. Because=20 type-of is implicit in the Lojban tanru form, it has no= Lojban equivalent. Note: It is perfectly legal, though pointless, to insert=20 - bo into a simple tanru: + bo into a simple tanru: <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e3d9" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section3-example9" /> ta klama bo jubme - That is-a goer=96table. + That is-a goer [] table. is a legal Lojban bridi that means exactly the same thing as=20 , and is ambiguous = in exactly the same ways. The cmavo=20 - bo serves only to resolve grouping ambiguity: it says n= othing about the more basic ambiguity present in all tanru. + bo serves only to resolve grouping ambiguity: i= t + says nothing about the more basic ambiguity present in all tanru.
Complex tanru grouping tanru groupingcomplex If one element of a tanru can be another tanru, why not both ele= ments? <anchor xml:id=3D"c5e4d1" /> <anchor xml:id=3D"cll_chapter5-section4-example1" /> diff --git a/todocbook/TODO b/todocbook/TODO index d2919a6..ea6cc99 100644 --- a/todocbook/TODO +++ b/todocbook/TODO @@ -3,21 +3,21 @@ Instructions For Helpers =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =20 Most of the below is intended to be done as needed as you review a particular chapter/section. It looks like more complexity than it actually is; you'll get used to it. =20 SAY HERE WHAT YOU'VE DONE, including parts you haven't completed (like index work). =20 -Robin Powell: 5.1, 5.2 +Robin Powell: 5.1, 5.2, 5.3 =20 ------ =20 Ignore Chapter 2 for now. =20 ------ =20 Fix the chapter name so it's just the second part, i.e. =20 Chapter 5 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.