From bpfk-list+bncCJ2UzZHuDRCty9joBBoEMnWDAw@googlegroups.com Sat Dec 25 09:11:26 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PWXeM-0003Po-Ew; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:26 -0800 Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35sf7337249wyb.16 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=/xjQ+fMr2ZLhc9Axy2/4p/6QaY0/EFWbw2NsBcbZV5A=; b=13oP5EHueKfZ1OQl0Q0f4fsrKNueFEvUuuj2D2IlFG5tfh/9dM/klEgFwPNGPH/Mnh e56mEMUINvW0QSHpajnHEfCrXNBIt0w7DpTv6yT3kvQyDkwqUngdnO2+yEsIOCknpScX KxvxNizdYgLYjlen3NtkxQ6hFBxh/ThfuXepE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FT9EzREG0iEgbQepRroRoi7GOFTlZgaTa1vDktu42DtSP7MP3J6CbQyEA7nqY4Nl8q tPos42iMXZHGv89nqZm+PuwHpr8Qj6PQLMF9PA8IjZz6+jeCv7u7hD4Rl+FPzGa6H3oh PNkw0WWoRLVUEtwhcY8K+HNQq8FFfZRowhXFs= Received: by 10.216.181.3 with SMTP id k3mr1433256wem.2.1293297069474; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:09 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.6.216 with SMTP id a24ls2284317wba.2.p; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.155.213 with SMTP id t21mr365753wbw.8.1293297067991; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.155.213 with SMTP id t21mr365752wbw.8.1293297067964; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ww0-f46.google.com (mail-ww0-f46.google.com [74.125.82.46]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id y33si1400467wbd.6.2010.12.25.09.11.06; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.46; Received: by wwj40 with SMTP id 40so7858129wwj.3 for ; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.144.7 with SMTP id x7mr6316405wbu.115.1293297065429; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.54.72 with HTTP; Sat, 25 Dec 2010 09:11:05 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20101225163743.GD29638@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20101225162920.GA29638@digitalkingdom.org> <20101225163743.GD29638@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 14:11:05 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [bpfk] lololol whole section missing? From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com, bpfk@lojban.org X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.46 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list bpfk-list@googlegroups.com; contact bpfk-list+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: bpfk-list@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > In case the implicit question wasn't obvious: =A0Should I put this > back in? =A0Same with the other one. I think the list of conflicting consonants should be there, since it's an important part of the gismu creation algorithm. mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -Robin > > On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 08:29:20AM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: >> Not sure how I missed this on the last run, but the Red Book has: >> >> - -------------------------- >> >>
4) =A0
Any gismu forms that conflicted with existing gismu were r= emoved. Obviously, being identical with an existing gismu cons >> titutes a conflict. In addition, a proposed gismu that was identical to = an existing gismu except for the final vowel was considered >> a conflict, since two such gismu would have identical 4-letter rafsi. >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >>

=A0XE "gismu: too-similar" = =A0 =A0XE "gismu: cr >> eation, proscribed gismu pairs" >>

More subtly: If the proposed gismu was identical to an existing = gismu except for a single consonant, and the consonant was " >> too similar=94 based on the following table, then the proposed gismu was= rejected. >>

>>

=A0 =A0
proposed gismu =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 existing = gismu >>

>>

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
b =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 p,= v >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 c =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 j, s >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 d =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 t >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 f =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 p, v >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 g =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 k, x >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 j =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 c, z >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 k =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 g, x >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 l =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 r >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 m =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 n >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 n =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 m >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 p =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 b, f >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 r =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 l >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 s =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 c, z >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 t =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 d >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 v =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 b, f >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 x =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 g, k >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 z =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 j, s >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
>>

=A0See Section 4 for an example. >>

>>

>> =A0XE "gismu: creation= , and transcription blunders" >>

5) =A0
The gismu form with the highest score usually became the a= ctual gismu. Sometimes a lower-scoring form was used to provid >> e a better rafsi. A few gismu were changed in error as a result of trans= cription blunders (for example, the gismu "gismu=94 should hav >> e been "gicmu=94, but it's too late to fix it now). >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
>>

=A0XE "gismu: source-langua= ge weights for" =A0 The language weights used to make most of th >> e gismu were as follows: >>

>> 

 =A0 Chinese 0.36
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 English 0.21
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Hindi =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 0.16
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Spanish 0.11
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Russian 0.09
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Arabic =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A00.07
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
reflecting 1985 number-of-speakers= data. A few gismu were made much later

>>

using updated weights: =A0 =A0 =A0
>>

>>

=A0 =A0
Chinese =A0 =A0 0.347 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Hindi =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 0.196 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 English 0.160 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Spanish 0.123 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Russian 0.089 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Arabic =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A00.085 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0
>>

(English and Hindi switched places due to demographic changes.) >>

>> Note that the stressed vowel of the gismu was considered sufficiently di= stinctive that two or more gismu may differ only in this vowel; as an extre= me example, "bradi=94, "bredi=94, "bridi=94, and "brodi=94 (but fortunately= not "brudi=94) are all existing gismu. >> >> - -------------------------- >> >> Now, dag-cll in the same place: >> >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Any gismu forms that conflicted with existing = gismu were removed. Obviously, being identical with an existing gismu const= itutes a conflict. In addition, a proposed gismu that was identical to an e= xisting gismu except for the final vowel was considered a conflict, since t= wo such gismu would have identical 4-letter rafsi. >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 5) >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 The gismu form with the highest score usually = became the actual gismu. Sometimes a lower-scoring form was used to provide= a better rafsi. A few gismu were changed in error as a result of transcrip= tion blunders (for example, the gismu >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 gismu should have been >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 gicmu, but it's too late to fix it no= w). >> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 >> =A0 =A0 =A0 >> =A0 =A0 >> =A0 =A0 Note that the stressed vowel of the gismu was considered s= ufficiently distinctive that two or more gismu may differ only in this vowe= l; as an extreme example, >> >> - -------------------------- >> >> You'll notice that this is just a teensy-weensy difference, and that >> dag-cll is Rather Shorter. >> >> What do I do with this? >> >> -Robin >> >> -- >> http://singinst.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. >> Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot >> is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" >> is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s "BPFK" group. >> To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@goog= legroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpf= k-list?hl=3Den. >> > > -- > http://singinst.org/ : =A0Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. > Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot > is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" > is "na nei". =A0 My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "BPFK" group. > To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googl= egroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk= -list?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= BPFK" group. To post to this group, send email to bpfk-list@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to bpfk-list+unsubscribe@googleg= roups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/bpfk-l= ist?hl=3Den.