Received: from localhost ([::1]:39790 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tf0eb-0007pG-VQ; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:55:42 -0800 Received: from mail-vc0-f181.google.com ([209.85.220.181]:57185) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1Tf0eS-0007pB-Iy for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:55:39 -0800 Received: by mail-vc0-f181.google.com with SMTP id gb30so913616vcb.40 for ; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:55:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=ywAyPuNvXIHNDPjXg7hAB27VyOb+hKG7/t2RvTreGy0=; b=W3MD3UlTiSAkomawJj3Xoev7HYfrSed1ZDOylYpiyf4o3nGJ6W/pMa169U8GWkZjIv hOnVG80CT8VCswAHIXd4pBt3W3rUYgc32ZWdGtei2e2+PFBIfXeOjhP2AhCWiBQvjVWy a2VCgBEx/EHsonWHFtdcMHwZxY4PvX2+Lgd/3dWiOX3eOxMt0LD3TiwYzjXQc2Tgqpc3 occxwN7eDKbMJiLFKAOLlxTQfVFJn2VDFlE6svuMk6AyCfWaP7ZfJGdQoaRFRqT9VWsw zzryIf0Wc8wS87uiBAJmT8W+OlY6zEdWZpf51bwoUuEtGOZx3CWp9uzC+kylWiQgBt8+ QM+A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.155.203 with SMTP id t11mr5178949vcw.8.1354420526078; Sat, 01 Dec 2012 19:55:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.7.135 with HTTP; Sat, 1 Dec 2012 19:55:25 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1804243.lh07qoYVdf@caracal> References: <1386646.ZUz1NGUVUn@caracal> <1804243.lh07qoYVdf@caracal> Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2012 22:55:25 -0500 Message-ID: From: Ian Johnson To: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Subject: Re: [jbovlaste] Is mathematical terminology jargon? X-BeenThere: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: jbovlaste@lojban.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============6668218649418553225==" Errors-To: jbovlaste-bounces@lojban.org --===============6668218649418553225== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04389099555b6004cfd69a48 --f46d04389099555b6004cfd69a48 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 In what sense are limsup/liminf jimte? They are not bounds for the entire sequence (consider 1,0,0,0..., which has limsup 0), and are not necessarily bounds for an infinite tail of the sequence either (consider any strictly monotone sequence). mu'o mi'e la latro'a On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Pierre Abbat wrote: > On Thursday, November 29, 2012 09:51:09 Michael Turniansky wrote: > > Actually, I never heard of the "limit superior" and "limit inferior" > > before. I had only heard of the other, and I understand that it may > cross > > it several times. But that doesn't change the fact that it gets > > progressively closer to it, and it ultimately serves as a extreme in that > > sense. OTOH, I proposed a lujvo, and a jargon one at that, so it can have > > any meaning attached to it we want. > > I think that the place structure of the word for "limit" should be "x1 is > the > limit of x2 approaching x3 in direction x4". And I still think it is not a > jimte, and agree that the limits inferior and superior are jimte. > > As to jargon, math terminology is more apt to be used outside the jargon > field > than, say, Pokemon terminology, so we should be more careful not to make > math > terms polysemous. The fact that natlangs use such terms as "ring" and > "filter" > in math to mean something completely different from the ordinary meaning > should > not excuse us doing the same in Lojban. > > Pierre > -- > The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain. > > > _______________________________________________ > jbovlaste mailing list > jbovlaste@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/jbovlaste > --f46d04389099555b6004cfd69a48 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In what sense are limsup/liminf jimte? They are not bounds for the entire s= equence (consider 1,0,0,0..., which has limsup 0), and are not necessarily = bounds for an infinite tail of the sequence either (consider any strictly m= onotone sequence).

mu'o mi'e la latro'a

On S= at, Dec 1, 2012 at 10:43 PM, Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org> wrote:
On Thursday, November 29, = 2012 09:51:09 Michael Turniansky wrote:
> =A0 Actually, I never heard of the "limit superior" and &quo= t;limit inferior"
> before. =A0I had only heard of the other, and I understand that it may= cross
> it several times. =A0But that doesn't change the fact that it gets=
> progressively closer to it, and it ultimately serves as a extreme in t= hat
> sense. OTOH, I proposed a lujvo, and a jargon one at that, so it can h= ave
> any meaning attached to it we want.

I think that the place structure of the word for "limit" sh= ould be "x1 is the
limit of x2 approaching x3 in direction x4". And I still think it is n= ot a
jimte, and agree that the limits inferior and superior are jimte.

As to jargon, math terminology is more apt to be used outside the jargon fi= eld
than, say, Pokemon terminology, so we should be more careful not to make ma= th
terms polysemous. The fact that natlangs use such terms as "ring"= and "filter"
in math to mean something completely different from the ordinary meaning sh= ould
not excuse us doing the same in Lojban.

Pierre
--
The Black Garden on the Mountain is not on the Black Mountain.


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