Received: from localhost ([::1]:44984 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TybHQ-0005Hh-Qd; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:52:45 -0800 Received: from mail-wi0-f169.google.com ([209.85.212.169]:47683) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TybHG-0005Hb-Mz for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:52:42 -0800 Received: by mail-wi0-f169.google.com with SMTP id hq12so1120708wib.4 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:52:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:content-type; bh=XpzyRvK59nhhC/2MTkG/+sp1HfZQ3U/ZsQDyO+Fyttc=; b=lIdU0qPZSnPbayfw3XFOhqxyczWdsiOi/BtbmGQQCBrlTsqt2ikqLKfEPzGY31JKYM X5y/VPLx3hWOPHdHXuKdGIB89ooEr5k1/o34NG3uSpJ1gaHGKNhzHqoIeG/PDMhkKUg0 Z6e76b3q45/n0/9J7VC/9giZJqGrXvuYHFm/94DPZ5pPPEreFe4sWmXZMeGEoPET1hvX Ah9o20Vt0NyhMyBRx3cQF35cjabLUbPvoAbhHkPlKYSsqGXMtEIjbwYEiAylI5RyxQ86 1n0GQNl+87H/vfQAvzzxr2G6b3QFI90/LGmWwJlJp0C51C2PsnEADK0dRvW4l+3KwiAn xW7Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.99.165 with SMTP id er5mr1137300wib.1.1359089546796; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:52:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.194.37.132 with HTTP; Thu, 24 Jan 2013 20:52:26 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20130124221349.GB20636@mercury.ccil.org> References: <20130124175134.GA14317@mercury.ccil.org> <51017FF7.504@plasmatix.com> <20130124221349.GB20636@mercury.ccil.org> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2013 08:52:26 +0400 Message-ID: From: Gleki Arxokuna To: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Subject: Re: [jbovlaste] berbere, berberi X-BeenThere: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: jbovlaste@lojban.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============3251369247479448935==" Errors-To: jbovlaste-bounces@lojban.org --===============3251369247479448935== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d044286faa79d7d04d415b1c6 --f46d044286faa79d7d04d415b1c6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 2:13 AM, John Cowan wrote: > selpa'i scripsit: > > > The PEG assigns rafsi to all fu'ivla, but even if you don't like the > > PEG morphology, the CLL itself proposes fu'ivla rafsi for fu'ivla of > > the form CCV'VCV: > > The reason that was just a proposal is that we could never prove that > decompositions were unambiguous. Note that a PEG grammar, unlike a YACC > grammar, does not prove this, because PEG grammars silently override > ambiguities using the rule "first = best". That isn't good enough for > Lojban morphology, so I consider the CLL proposal a dead letter. > > > Allowing two fu'ivla to differ only in their final vowel would remove > > the possibility of having fu'ivla rafsi, which is quite a big cost. > > Fu'ivla lujvo have their own problems, because you have to make sure > that you can enunciate them as single words with no pauses or additional > stresses. "Zei" compounds don't have those problems. > Given that I don't like any lujvo but jvajvo (which i just tolerate, {mi no'e prami} them, to be precise) it can make sense. However, peg-parser seems to be not correct then. /me waiting for CLL 1.1 then until discussing this further > > -- > John Cowan cowan@ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan > The known is finite, the unknown infinite; intellectually we stand > on an islet in the midst of an illimitable ocean of inexplicability. > Our business in every generation is to reclaim a little more land, > to add something to the extent and the solidity of our possessions. > --Thomas Henry Huxley > > _______________________________________________ > jbovlaste mailing list > jbovlaste@lojban.org > http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/jbovlaste > --f46d044286faa79d7d04d415b1c6 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 2:13 AM, John Cowan <<= a href=3D"mailto:cowan@mercury.ccil.org" target=3D"_blank">cowan@mercury.cc= il.org> wrote:
selpa'i scripsit:

> The PEG assigns rafsi to all fu'ivla, but even if you don't li= ke the
> PEG morphology, the CLL itself proposes fu'ivla rafsi for fu'i= vla of
> the form CCV'VCV:

The reason that was just a proposal is that we could never prove that=
decompositions were unambiguous. =C2=A0Note that a PEG grammar, unlike a YA= CC
grammar, does not prove this, because PEG grammars silently override
ambiguities using the rule "first =3D best". =C2=A0That isn't= good enough for
Lojban morphology, so I consider the CLL proposal a dead letter.

> Allowing two fu'ivla to differ only in their final vowel would rem= ove
> the possibility of having fu'ivla rafsi, which is quite a big cost= .

Fu'ivla lujvo have their own problems, because you have to make s= ure
that you can enunciate them as single words with no pauses or additional stresses. =C2=A0"Zei" compounds don't have those problems.

Given that I don't like any luj= vo but jvajvo (which i just tolerate, {mi no'e prami} them, to be preci= se) it can make sense. However, peg-parser seems to be not correct then.

/me waiting for CLL 1.1 then until discussi= ng this further

--
John Cowan =C2=A0 cowan@ccil.org =C2= =A0 =C2=A0http://ccil.= org/~cowan
The known is finite, the unknown infinite; intellectually we stand
on an islet in the midst of an illimitable ocean of inexplicability.
Our business in every generation is to reclaim a little more land,
to add something to the extent and the solidity of our possessions.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --Thomas Henry Huxley

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