Received: from localhost ([::1]:54298 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TzTVB-0003fy-Qn; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 06:46:34 -0800 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.120]:48940) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.76) (envelope-from ) id 1TzTUv-0003fr-Ad for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 06:46:22 -0800 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.0 cv=K++g7lqI c=1 sm=0 a=sqYj6zCFaLTNQ95sbP+eeQ==:17 a=W3V8cEvdJLQA:10 a=JFaJvMoBDvMA:10 a=93UUt2rjulAA:10 a=Yr05hP5UdKEA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=xqWC_Br6kY4A:10 a=JNFw9bs7AAAA:8 a=lpRPLfts4U0A:10 a=lPEhMUbufGtGYoN_ls4A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=sqYj6zCFaLTNQ95sbP+eeQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Authenticated-User: X-Originating-IP: 69.132.98.107 Received: from [69.132.98.107] ([69.132.98.107:58798] helo=leopard.ixazon.lan) by cdptpa-oedge01.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.3.46 r()) with ESMTP id 6F/53-25866-8BD35015; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 14:46:16 +0000 Received: from caracal.localnet (unknown [IPv6:2001:470:8:42:6170:dbc2:1e8a:24a7]) by leopard.ixazon.lan (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE36ECCA for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2013 09:46:12 -0500 (EST) From: Pierre Abbat To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2013 09:46:08 -0500 Message-ID: <1376677.4WmZEXyAge@caracal> User-Agent: KMail/4.8.5 (Linux/3.2.0-35-generic; KDE/4.8.5; x86_64; ; ) In-Reply-To: References: <2029327.iOYOI41eTG@caracal> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / Subject: Re: [jbovlaste] berbere, berberi X-BeenThere: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list Reply-To: jbovlaste@lojban.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Errors-To: jbovlaste-bounces@lojban.org On Sunday, January 27, 2013 13:34:17 Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > What is the rule for fu'ivla that can differ in the last vowel then? > Whats the difference between tci'ili and kapsiku? 1. If a fu'ivla ends in more than one vowel, you can't remove the last vowel and get a rafsi, so it can differ in the last vowel. 2. Change the single last vowel to 'y' and append a gismu such that not putting the 'y' would violate phonotactics. If the result is a lujvo composed entirely of gismu/cmavo rafsi (regardless of whether some of the "rafsi" aren't actually rafsi of a word), then the fu'ivla does not have a rafsi, and you can change its last vowel and get a different word. 3. If the result, when preceded by a CV cmavo, is a lujvo composed of gismu/cmavo rafsi, the fu'ivla does have a rafsi, but it cannot be used at the beginning of a word. To use the fu'ivla at the beginning of a lujvo, keep the vowel and append "'y". 4. If the result is not a lujvo composed of gismu/cmavo rafsi, either by itself or preceded by CV, the fu'ivla has a rafsi obtained by dropping the last vowel. If the fu'ivla begins with a vowel, prepend an apostrophe if it's preceded by another rafsi. So, starting with "tci'ile": 1. it ends with a single vowel 2. consider "tci'ilylabno". "i'il" and "ci'il" aren't rafsi of anything, and "tci'il" isn't a rafsi of a gismu or cmavo, so it's not a lujvo composed of gismu/cmavo rafsi. 3. add "le" to get "letci'ilylabno". "let" is a rafsi, but "ci'il" is not. 4. conclude that "tci'ile" does have a rafsi "tci'il". And starting with "kapsiku": 1. it ends with a single vowel 2. consider "kapsikyxukmi". This is a lujvo of "skapi silka xukmi". Therefore "kapsiku" does not have a rafsi "kapsik". Pierre -- Don't buy a French car in Holland. It may be a citroen. _______________________________________________ jbovlaste mailing list jbovlaste@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/jbovlaste