Received: from localhost ([::1]:53375 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VLOeS-000465-QQ for jbovlaste-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2013 19:35:01 -0700 Received: from mail-ob0-f177.google.com ([209.85.214.177]:48326) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VLMN9-0003KL-Tz for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:09:06 -0700 Received: by mail-ob0-f177.google.com with SMTP id wp18so3142943obc.36 for ; Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:08:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=+Aw7pgR/Ch/YYTVyjG8JGTZHUSthyjHPlcWf9wVJApU=; b=irHLUwKLi+jlQyeNLNRA/TyIwrzuz8F0nFWnNPE5y4PtZVd3LqMm7e15W8QU5wPG24 IEh+M/kCC1HyOgr/SO2uNkUp3gLeat60wKl4lFCTyLO1SCIqTThlCIwfMHx9ji0vgCmn rwxQuUFhlakFnk1MS7u5XlQGnswFHajsxeNL+DYgnL9iZbTP2OOXRFX+YACV1HBrzJlg FoOEZrrmLYeBumMkRwS26j+Fdyr4G6pnFDJnu7QPaZ2GxLHeZQG4UIX0FpvHCp/dGI5h pC5oRQz+xhysxLEgZu8+ji1DBjOh0qjrSqVjetWE11lX0ljXPVSYvAlexQlIcOkLR5fF E27Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.124.14 with SMTP id me14mr23234183oeb.4.1379290132813; Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:08:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.112.164 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Sep 2013 17:08:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20130915194202.23b2c9f5@aol.com> References: <20130915194202.23b2c9f5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 20:08:52 -0400 Message-ID: From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com, jbovlaste@lojban.org X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 19:34:58 -0700 Subject: Re: [jbovlaste] =?utf-8?q?=5Blojban=5D_Changing_the_English_definitio?= =?utf-8?b?biBvZiDigJxmaSdp4oCdIG9uIGpib3ZsYXN0ZS4=?= X-BeenThere: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: jbovlaste@lojban.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============5621778201840332401==" Errors-To: jbovlaste-bounces@lojban.org --===============5621778201840332401== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b5d33d4689b1604e6750238 --047d7b5d33d4689b1604e6750238 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't actually use "You're welcome" and "You are welcome" interchangeably, despite the fact that one is, logically speaking, only a contraction of the other. I would never use the latter as a response to "Thank you" Nonetheless, I do agree that the proposed changes are appropriate, and should be made. (But this really belongs on the jbovlaste gorup, not the main) --gejyspa On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Wuzzy wrote: > I think the definition of =E2=80=9Cfi'i=E2=80=9D on jbovlaste is just wro= ng. > > The current definition is: > > vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; you are welcome/ make yourself > > at home. > This definition contradicts itself, since =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome= !=E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9CYou are > welcome!=E2=80=9D is a response to =E2=80=9CThank you=E2=80=9D, and is NO= T used to indicate > hospitality. A simple =E2=80=9CWelcome!=E2=80=9D is used for that instead= . According to > the CLL , clearly the =E2=80=9CWelcome!= =E2=80=9D > meaning is actually meant by =E2=80=9Cfi'i=E2=80=9D and not the =E2=80=9C= You=E2=80=99re welcome!=E2=80=9D > meaning. But there are some Lojbanists that seem to confuse that. Part > of the confusion may be caused by this definition on jbovlaste. > > I propose the following new definition: > > vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; =E2=80=9CWelcome! / Make yoursel= f at > > home. > > I propose to add the following notes for extra clarity: > > {fi'i} does not mean =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome=E2=80=9D. For =E2= =80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome!=E2=80=9D (as a > > response to =E2=80=9CThank you!=E2=80=9D/{ki'e}), use {je'e} instead. > Probably a link to the relevant part of the CLL > could be added as well (if that > haven=E2=80=99t already happened). > > Normally, I make changes to jbovlaste directly, but I make an exception > for cmavo and gismu, because messing with their definitions is serious > business. I want to hear your opinions first. > > -- > Wuzzy > XMPP: Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > --047d7b5d33d4689b1604e6750238 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0 I don't actually use "You're welcome&q= uot; and "You are welcome" interchangeably, despite the fact that= one is, logically speaking, only a contraction of the other. =C2=A0I would= never use the latter as a response to "Thank you" Nonetheless, I= do agree =C2=A0that the proposed changes are appropriate, and should be ma= de.

=C2=A0 (But this really belongs on the jbovlaste gorup, not = the main)

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gej= yspa



On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Wuzzy = <almikes@aol.com> wrote:
I think the definition of =E2=80=9Cfi'i= =E2=80=9D on jbovlaste is just wrong.

The current definition is:
> vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; you are welcome/ make yourself<= br> > at home.
This definition contradicts itself, since =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome!= =E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9CYou are
welcome!=E2=80=9D is a response to =E2=80=9CThank you=E2=80=9D, and is NOT = used to indicate
hospitality. A simple =E2=80=9CWelcome!=E2=80=9D is used for that instead. = According to
the CLL <
h= ttp://dag.github.io/cll/13/14/>, clearly the =E2=80=9CWelcome!=E2=80= =9D
meaning is actually meant by =E2=80=9Cfi'i=E2=80=9D and not the =E2=80= =9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome!=E2=80=9D
meaning. =C2=A0But there are some Lojbanists that seem to confuse that. Par= t
of the confusion may be caused by this definition on jbovlaste.

I propose the following new definition:
> vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; =E2=80=9CWelcome! / Make yourse= lf at
> home.

I propose to add the following notes for extra clarity:
> {fi'i} does not mean =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome=E2=80=9D. For= =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome!=E2=80=9D (as a
> response to =E2=80=9CThank you!=E2=80=9D/{ki'e}), use {je'e} i= nstead.
Probably a link to the relevant part of the CLL
<http://da= g.github.io/cll/13/14/> could be added as well (if that
haven=E2=80=99t already happened).

Normally, I make changes to jbovlaste directly, but I make an exception
for cmavo and gismu, because messing with their definitions is serious
business. I want to hear your opinions first.

--
Wuzzy
XMPP: Wuzzy2@jabber.ccc.de

--
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