Received: from localhost ([::1]:40518 helo=stodi.digitalkingdom.org) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1W7dE2-0005Sa-Sm for jbovlaste-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 26 Jan 2014 19:51:07 -0800 Received: from mail-ve0-f187.google.com ([209.85.128.187]:65023) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1VLVKO-0006nq-J1 for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:51 -0700 Received: by mail-ve0-f187.google.com with SMTP id pa12so1285361veb.24 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject :mime-version:content-type; bh=S158iG41CTxRMH0lLrO7KYE0j4+rwi9r7DelVEj92hg=; b=kixnida+dHFPs0gS0e4FgSNuobSFFjsDqnSp86rC71Oaw9EDmSfl3pLgM3V//DF+fc YPQmePWaEJN3T2Y2w2YZQ6Qo/ThWo4/PUpAcscU6TiopUkfpygl6gqGzyVbwglEi+L2d lvYbwkOHwkSozizFTf+Qr9hWPvjnYminKWnJmjP/EZcgb2cD/hHcyNCaRlzsTqn1+JbH yhIVnYL+Eq8JIeF+zvFOtBckrATZIF98svmW9JyxC9N6ty4gE4liaDIMFL8CXchcsyzm BkcbEsIFRcsGFwCKYZiyQtNTUymi1R8u8vrGBPyYf58a5WdwBGVt/dvyxBiAjNKRJaVS gKJQ== X-Received: by 10.49.72.65 with SMTP id b1mr28675qev.21.1379324557964; Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-Doc-Id: 95ec9abbc698bd3c X-Google-Web-Client: true Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 02:42:37 -0700 (PDT) From: la arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <20130915194202.23b2c9f5@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_Part_4176_25733662.1379324557614" X-Google-Token: EI2l25EFXi-IdLmhnJI0 X-Google-IP: 217.66.19.48 X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 19:51:04 -0800 Cc: jbovlaste@lojban.org Subject: Re: [jbovlaste] =?utf-8?q?=5Blojban=5D_Changing_the_English_definitio?= =?utf-8?b?biBvZiDigJxmaSdp4oCdIG9uIGpib3ZsYXN0ZS4=?= X-BeenThere: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: jbovlaste@lojban.org List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: jbovlaste-bounces@lojban.org ------=_Part_4176_25733662.1379324557614 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_4177_22598618.1379324557614" ------=_Part_4177_22598618.1379324557614 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Monday, September 16, 2013 4:08:52 AM UTC+4, gejyspa wrote: > > I don't actually use "You're welcome" and "You are welcome"=20 > interchangeably, despite the fact that one is, logically speaking, only a= =20 > contraction of the other. I would never use the latter as a response to= =20 > "Thank you" Nonetheless, I do agree that the proposed changes are=20 > appropriate, and should be made. > > (But this really belongs on the jbovlaste gorup, not the main) > i ma tcidu lo jbovlaste girzu notci vau paunai i ku'i la'aru'e srana si'a lo bypyfyky girzu =20 > > --gejyspa > > > > On Sun, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Wuzzy >wrot= e: > >> I think the definition of =E2=80=9Cfi'i=E2=80=9D on jbovlaste is just wr= ong. >> >> The current definition is: >> > vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; you are welcome/ make yourself >> > at home. >> This definition contradicts itself, since =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcom= e!=E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9CYou are >> welcome!=E2=80=9D is a response to =E2=80=9CThank you=E2=80=9D, and is N= OT used to indicate >> hospitality. A simple =E2=80=9CWelcome!=E2=80=9D is used for that instea= d. According to >> the CLL , clearly the =E2=80=9CWelcome!= =E2=80=9D >> meaning is actually meant by =E2=80=9Cfi'i=E2=80=9D and not the =E2=80= =9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome!=E2=80=9D >> meaning. But there are some Lojbanists that seem to confuse that. Part >> of the confusion may be caused by this definition on jbovlaste. >> >> I propose the following new definition: >> > vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; =E2=80=9CWelcome! / Make yourse= lf at >> > home. >> >> I propose to add the following notes for extra clarity: >> > {fi'i} does not mean =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome=E2=80=9D. For =E2= =80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome!=E2=80=9D (as a >> > response to =E2=80=9CThank you!=E2=80=9D/{ki'e}), use {je'e} instead. >> Probably a link to the relevant part of the CLL >> could be added as well (if that >> haven=E2=80=99t already happened). >> >> Normally, I make changes to jbovlaste directly, but I make an exception >> for cmavo and gismu, because messing with their definitions is serious >> business. I want to hear your opinions first. >> >> -- >> Wuzzy >> XMPP: Wuz...@jabber.ccc.de >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s=20 >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n=20 >> email to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com . >> To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com >> . >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> > > ------=_Part_4177_22598618.1379324557614 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Monday, September 16, 2013 4:08:52 AM UTC+4, ge= jyspa wrote:
&= nbsp; I don't actually use "You're welcome" and "You are welcome" interchan= geably, despite the fact that one is, logically speaking, only a contractio= n of the other.  I would never use the latter as a response to "Thank = you" Nonetheless, I do agree  that the proposed changes are appropriat= e, and should be made.

  (But this really belongs on the jbovlaste gorup, not = the main)

i ma tcidu lo jbovlas= te girzu notci vau paunai
i ku'i la'aru'e srana si'a lo bypyfyky = girzu
 

          --gej= yspa



On S= un, Sep 15, 2013 at 1:42 PM, Wuzzy <alm...@aol.c= om> wrote:
I think the definition of =E2=80=9Cfi'i=E2= =80=9D on jbovlaste is just wrong.

The current definition is:
> vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; you are welcome/ make yourself<= br> > at home.
This definition contradicts itself, since =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome!= =E2=80=9D/=E2=80=9CYou are
welcome!=E2=80=9D is a response to =E2=80=9CThank you=E2=80=9D, and is NOT = used to indicate
hospitality. A simple =E2=80=9CWelcome!=E2=80=9D is used for that instead. = According to
the CLL <h= ttp://dag.github.io/cll/13/14/>, clearly the =E2=80=9CWelcome!= =E2=80=9D
meaning is actually meant by =E2=80=9Cfi'i=E2=80=9D and not the =E2=80=9CYo= u=E2=80=99re welcome!=E2=80=9D
meaning.  But there are some Lojbanists that seem to confuse that. Par= t
of the confusion may be caused by this definition on jbovlaste.

I propose the following new definition:
> vocative: hospitality - inhospitality; =E2=80=9CWelcome! / Make yourse= lf at
> home.

I propose to add the following notes for extra clarity:
> {fi'i} does not mean =E2=80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome=E2=80=9D. For =E2= =80=9CYou=E2=80=99re welcome!=E2=80=9D (as a
> response to =E2=80=9CThank you!=E2=80=9D/{ki'e}), use {je'e} instead.<= br> Probably a link to the relevant part of the CLL
<http://da= g.github.io/cll/13/14/> could be added as well (if that
haven=E2=80=99t already happened).

Normally, I make changes to jbovlaste directly, but I make an exception
for cmavo and gismu, because messing with their definitions is serious
business. I want to hear your opinions first.

--
Wuzzy
XMPP: Wuz...@jabber.ccc.de

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+un...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to loj...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.

------=_Part_4177_22598618.1379324557614-- ------=_Part_4176_25733662.1379324557614 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ jbovlaste mailing list jbovlaste@lojban.org http://mail.lojban.org/mailman/listinfo/jbovlaste ------=_Part_4176_25733662.1379324557614--