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From: Robin Lee Powell <rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org>
To: turnip <turnip@bcpl.net>
Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: jbovlaste erroneously states original	creator?as the person who edited a definition
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On Tue, Oct 02, 2007 at 11:29:16AM -0400, turnip wrote:
> >> >> .i  lo ka ce'u banro je selci'i pe la lojban
> >> >
> >> >"(The property of growing and being someone interested in
> >> >things) associated with Lojban."
> >> >
> >> >ki'a
> >>
> >> Yes.  The property of being (a-grower-and-interested-thing),
> >> associated with lojban.  What's wrong with that?
> >
> >It doesn't make any sense.  The fact that something is becoming
> >physically larger has no relationship to their being interested
> >in things.  And even if it did, I don't have any idea what the
> >poperty of being "something increasing in size and interested in
> >things" means.
> 
> ??  Who says that the two terms in a jek have to have a
> relationship to one another?  

Pragmatism.

> "ti blanu je zdani" is perfectly valid.  This is a blue-and-house
> thing.  

Yes, but I can imagine things that are both blue and houses.

> This is a "ka ce'u banro pe la lojban", a growth (of an
> unspecified something) associated in some way with lojban, and a
> "ka ce'u selci'i pe la lojban", an interest (by an specified
> something) asssociated in some way with lojban.

Yes, I understand that.  I have no idea what thing could possibly be
both of those at the same time.  That's the problem.

> >> >> simsa lo falrenzdi
> >> >
> >> >zo falrenzdi na cmima la jbovlaste .i ko cuxna lo te sumti
> >> >smuni ku gi'a pilno lo tanru
> >>
> >> lo falrenzdi cu trene fo loi velfa'u joi lo linsi poi mo'iga'u
> >> lacpu ku  mu'i lo nu zdile lo selma'e
> >
> >That's nice, but is not what I asked you to do: I asked you to
> >create a complete definition, including all the sumti places.
> >All you've done here is explain the x1.  If you're not going to
> >come up with a full definition, don't use a lujvo.
> 
> I'm sorry, suddenly the use of non-specified nonce lujvo is
> forbidden?? 

I don't like it; you can take that as forbidden or not as you like.

> Let's see.. let's look at an example of something by some guy
> named "Robin Powell":  I see "ralcinfra" used several times in
> "nicte cadzu" with no listing in jbovlaste, no explanation of what
> the word means, no place structure definition, no indication that
> it's a nonce term.  ditto "bavlamji", "tacsa'e" (which I assume is
> a typo for "tacysa'e"), etc. etc.  Need I go on????

Every lujvo I created in LNC has a complete definition.  I haven't
posted them all, and that's my bad, but they exist.  As an example,
here's a transcription of ralcinfra's definition:

    f1=c1 has an orgasm in response to stimulus f3 under conditions
    f4, thereby exhibiting sexuality/gender/sexual orientation c3
    (ka) by standard c4).  f2, c2 and all places of ralju subsumed
    by the concept of orgasm.

My *point* is that if you don't define the other places, you should
be using a tanru, because otherwise you lead readers to believe that
the word is important enough to warrant the 30+ minute process
involved in good lujvo creation.

> I didn't need to specify more than the x1 place, because that's
> all I used.

Then you should have used a tanru.  IME, YMMV.

> But if you really want me to:
> 
> falrenzdi x1=t1 is a roller coaster at amusement park x2=t3 propelled by 
> motive force x3=t4

I don't know why you dropped t2, you've not mentioned or used the
places of farlu or zdile, and it seems to me that t4 is covered by
farlu.

Good lujvo creation is hard.

> >
> >> >"fall train amusing"?  ki'a sai
> >
> >Still ki'a sai
>  (see above)

I still have no idea what "rollercoaster amusing" has to do with the
original discussion, but it's probably past relevance now.

-- 
http://www.digitalkingdom.org/~rlpowell/ *** http://www.lojban.org/
Reason #237 To Learn Lojban: "Homonyms: Their Grate!"
Proud Supporter of the Singularity Institute - http://singinst.org/