Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
Delivery-date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:24:06 -0700
From: Pierre Abbat <phma@phma.optus.nu>
To: "A. PIEKARSKI" <totus@rogers.com>, jbovlaste@lojban.org
Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: lujvo for sports
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 2009 00:22:50 -0400
User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405)
References: <650330.13646.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <650330.13646.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline
Message-Id: <200907160022.53270.phma@phma.optus.nu>
Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org
Content-Length: 2369
Lines: 82

Please take discussion of new words to the jbovlaste list.

On Wednesday 15 July 2009 21:53:15 you wrote:
> Well, I'm sure you will all sigh with relief to read
> that I am coming to the end of my lujvo-defining spree.
> Just sports (below) and business left.
> Here are a few more of my proposed
> lujvo/fu'ivla (two for each sport: playing and the
> match itself).

The name of a sport should be a cmene. The brivla could have place 
structure "x1 plays hedge-pedge with x2", and you get a selbri for a 
hedge-pedge match by sticking "nu" in front.

> SOCCER 
> jvoblaste already has boltipkei:
>
> x1 is a play
> gloss: football [as game]
>  
> I propose to change it to::
> k1=t1 plays soccer with ball of material b2
>  
> from:
> bolci: b1 is a ball of material b2
> tikpa: t1 kicks t2 at locus t3, using foot t4
> kelci: k1 [agent] plays with k2
>  
> Soccer match: boltipyjvi
>
> FOOTBALL(American/Canadian)
> bolbeikei
> bolbeiyjvi
>  
> BASKETBALL
> bolre'okei
> bolre'ojvi
>
>
> Now hear I propose fu'ivla.  Wherever I've travelled,
> the names are always the same or very similar.

Not everywhere. Italian calcium players need lots of soccer for their bones. 
The homonyms go back to Latin. I do agree, though, that for specific sports, 
fu'ivla are better; "bolre'ojvi" could refer to any of various ball-throwing 
games. Can you express "ulama" or "innebandy" or "jai alai" as a lujvo?

> I've often come unstuck with fu'ivla which inevitably
> are invalid.  My question is: to check, do I just enter
> them into jbofi'e, and accept them if it comes back with
> the word but no comment, or "Unrecognizable word"?  Or what?

Usually that works, but occasionally it makes a mistake. "damskrima" is valid, 
but it rejects it. I wouldn't use that as a word; I'd say "dambrskrima" 
or "eskrima" (it is a sport, can you recognize it?)

> RUGBY
> ragrbi
> ragrbi terjvi

"ragrbi" is a type-3 fu'ivla for some biological organ.

> BASEBALL
> beisbo
> beisbo terjvi

"sb" is a forbidden cluster. "beizbo" is a valid word, but it's a meaningless 
lujvo.

> CRICKET
> kriketi
> kriketi terjvi

That is a valid fu'ivla. Be sure not to confuse it with cricket (the 
insect, "sanjalra" is a typo for, I guess, "sagjalra", though it's not really 
a jalra) or hamster (which I think is kriceto, but I'm not sure of the 
spelling now, and it's not in jbovlaste).

phma