Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
Delivery-date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 14:04:08 -0700
DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;  s=s1024; d=rogers.com;  h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type;  b=a3ZDib3pdLcYzXJLuR3G0Yasgr5wAvQX228vY2kEYCLpTRipkugiwiulgqUtTtOQQmUYYnZsB38vflcCs8LQUZkxzZ9C5RKkiHCYjrIi9raXAe1XsATEWS9O0TRaOgK6EEvZDzXOTx2cpIHKA9ONwJLodTABA8iauUaUUbyU46Q=;
Message-ID: <294350.93044.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <711327.89799.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com>  <20090901171911.GA17385@sdf.lonestar.org>  <180785.68243.qm@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com>  <20090901200511.GJ5073@nvg.org>  <929481.30964.qm@web88005.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <71550650909012347x77bd6bel356a8677adb1434d@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 14:02:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. PIEKARSKI" <totus@rogers.com>
Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Ramadan etc
To: jbovlaste@lojban.org
In-Reply-To: <71550650909012347x77bd6bel356a8677adb1434d@mail.gmail.com>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1335772347-1252098170=:93044"
Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org
Content-Length: 4056
Lines: 62

--0-1335772347-1252098170=:93044
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

>=0A> This veljvo could equally well refer to Holy Thursday (the end of Chr=
istian=0A> Lent), and the aftermath of a number of fasts in Judaism. Given =
the specificity=0A> of this concept, I really think it would be better serv=
ed as a fu'ivla. And=0A> given the importance of Arabic in Islam, it would =
not be a breach of cultural=0A> neutrality to borrow the term from Arabic.=
=0A>=0A=0A=0AYou have a good point.=A0 However, I am conservative on Type 4=
 fu'ivla in that I believe=0A>>they should only be used for words that are =
internationally recognized.=A0 'Ramadan'=0A>>is recognized virtually everyw=
here, whereas Eid ul Fitr is not.=A0 I'm tempted to=0A>>suggest musysezyfan=
tyfamnunsla - but that's just too long!=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A>=0A>I think it's b=
est to take a hint from Moslems themselves. What do non-Arabic-speaking Mos=
lems call these holiday? =A0Do American Moslems call it "Eid-ul-Fitr" or do=
 they call it "breaking the fast day"? =A0I believe the former, so this is =
what Lojban should do as well.=0A>=0A>I don't doubt that "Eid-ul-Fitr" is t=
he term most often used by the world's Moslems.=A0=A0But not so in=A0Indone=
sia, the country with the most Moslems in the world, where it's Hari Raya A=
idilfitri","Hari Otak", "Hari Raya Idul Fitri" or "Hari Raya Puasa".=A0 In =
Nigeria "Small Sallah".=A0 In Turkey "Bayram".=0A>=0A>I guess I'll leave th=
is one for someone else to figure out.=0A>=0A>=0A>
--0-1335772347-1252098170=:93044
Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;font-size:1=
2pt"><DIV>&gt;<BR>&gt; This veljvo could equally well refer to Holy Thursda=
y (the end of Christian<BR>&gt; Lent), and the aftermath of a number of fas=
ts in Judaism. Given the specificity<BR>&gt; of this concept, I really thin=
k it would be better served as a fu'ivla. And<BR>&gt; given the importance =
of Arabic in Islam, it would not be a breach of cultural<BR>&gt; neutrality=
 to borrow the term from Arabic.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR></DIV>=0A<BLOCKQUOTE style=
=3D"BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; FONT-SIZE:=
 12pt">=0A<DIV style=3D"FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, seri=
f; FONT-SIZE: 12pt">=0A<DIV dir=3Dltr>=0A<DIV class=3Dgmail_quote>=0A<BLOCK=
QUOTE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; PADD=
ING-LEFT: 1ex" class=3Dgmail_quote>You have a good point.&nbsp; However, I =
am conservative on Type 4 fu'ivla in that I believe<BR>they should only be =
used for words that are internationally recognized.&nbsp; 'Ramadan'<BR>is r=
ecognized virtually everywhere, whereas Eid ul Fitr is not.&nbsp; I'm tempt=
ed to<BR>suggest musysezyfantyfamnunsla - but that's just too long!<BR><BR>=
</BLOCKQUOTE>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV>=0A<DIV>I think it's best to take a hint fro=
m Moslems themselves. What do non-Arabic-speaking Moslems call these holida=
y? &nbsp;Do American Moslems call it "Eid-ul-Fitr" or do they call it "brea=
king the fast day"? &nbsp;I believe the former, so this is what Lojban shou=
ld do as well.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>=0A<DIV>I don't doubt that =
"Eid-ul-Fitr" is the term most often used by the world's Moslems.&nbsp;&nbs=
p;But not so in&nbsp;Indonesia, the country with the most Moslems in the wo=
rld, where it's <STRONG>Hari Raya Aidilfitri"</STRONG>,"<B>Hari Otak"</B>, =
"<B>Hari Raya Idul Fitri"</B> or "<STRONG>Hari Raya Puasa".&nbsp; In Nigeri=
a "</STRONG>Small Sallah".&nbsp; In Turkey "Bayram".</DIV></DIV>=0A<DIV>&nb=
sp;</DIV>=0A<DIV>I guess I'll leave this one for someone else to figure out=
.</DIV>=0A<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>=0A<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOC=
KQUOTE></div></body></html>
--0-1335772347-1252098170=:93044--