Return-path: X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:32:27 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MjDLg-0006kb-Ad; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:31:48 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:30:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MjDKa-0006jy-5j for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:30:32 -0700 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.121]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MjDKS-0006af-6V for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Thu, 03 Sep 2009 07:30:31 -0700 Received: from chausie ([71.75.215.96]) by cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com with ESMTP id <20090903143016633.QZUX8054@cdptpa-omta01.mail.rr.com> for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 14:30:16 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id E704561E8 for ; Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:30:15 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: grammatical constituents Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 10:30:09 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <4de8c3930909030654h502f78b2kda9984075d10fb81@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4de8c3930909030654h502f78b2kda9984075d10fb81@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200909031030.11782.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 958 Lines: 29 On Thursday 03 September 2009 09:54:24 tijlan wrote: > pe'u lo te sidbo ko stidi tu'a lo xamgu ke jbobau xe fanva be di'e noi > gerna valsi > (please idea-ers, do suggest good lojbanic translations of the > following, which are grammar words) > > subject > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject_(grammar) > > object > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_(grammar) > > i o'i.i'i zo'oi .subject. ka'e frica zo'oi .agent. > ([caution-together] "subject" can be different from "agent") > > agent > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_(linguistics) I think the subject should be called lo sumti be fi li pa, the direct object lo sumti be fi li re, and the indirect object lo sumti be fi li ci. Except in ergative constructions, where the subject sumti fi li re and the direct object sumti fi li pa. This doesn't mean that they are normally in that order, but verbs more often have a first sumti than a second, and a second more often than a third. Pierre