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Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:41:19 -0400
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Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Esther Chapter 2
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
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On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 1:26 PM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:

>> >
>> > 3) {speme'a}
>> >
>> > m1=s1 is a concubine, with lower rank than m2 by the amount of m4 ranks,
>> belonging to s2 under tradition s3.
>> >
>>
>>   No.  I have it me'aspe, not speme'a (as you have here)  for a
>> reason.  I think the important thing is that it's a wife, not that
>> it's a lesser thing.
>>
>>   m1=s1 is a concubine/lesser spouse of s2 under law/custom/convention s3
>>
>
> But isn't this the same situation that we discussed with xorxes for words like
> {selteptce}, {stanycma}, and plinycma?

  Which, if you recall, I vociferously debated him on "plinycma" (I
have the whole thread save, if you need me to rehash it), and both
"cmaplini" and "plinycma" forms exist in jbovlaste.  I have less
problem with -tce endings, however, as that's a different case, and
has a lojbo cecmu convention to back it up.

>
> fearsome: {selteptce} not {tceselte'a}
> from: m1 mutce lo ka t2 se terpa t1 kei m3

  This is correct.
>
> sprout: {stanycma} not {cmastani}
> from: c1=s1 cmalu loka stani s2 kei c3
>
  But that definition is something that is small, not something that
is a plant.  That is decidely NOT the definition of a shoot

> asteroid {plinycma} not {cmaplini}
(but it does have both)
> from: c1 cmalu loka p1 plini p2 p3 p4 kei c3

  But that definition is something that is small, not something that
is a planet.  That is decidedly NOT the definition of an asteroid


> In all the above cases, _tce, _cma, etc can be expanded easily to their
> origins.  How would you expand .... {cmastini}, {cmaplini} and ...
> {me'aspe}?

The short answer? x1(=c1=s1) cmalu be fi x3=c3 stani x2=s2

x1(=c1=p1)  cmalu be fi x3=c3 be'o p2 p3 p4
or  x1 plini x2 fi lo ka cmalu x3

  But more to the point, as I've said before, I'm a strong believer
that the lujvo must follow the order of the underlying tanru, as the
CLL does, and to me they are a cmalu plini, a cmalu stani, and a mleca
speni

  As for me'aspe:

m1=s1 mleca (be fi lo ka speni be fi s3 be'o) speni s2 s3

                     --gejyspa