Return-path: X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:14:09 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([64.81.66.169]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Myymd-0005UB-44; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:12:48 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1MyyjI-0005Te-Gj for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:09:19 -0700 Received: from mail-fx0-f211.google.com ([209.85.220.211]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Myyiy-0005SD-VI for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:09:08 -0700 Received: by fxm7 with SMTP id 7so3009225fxm.34 for ; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:08:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:sender:received:in-reply-to :references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=NpDFqrjNfCeqodonH8+GjLwKd71wttqP/MyMJljjUKs=; b=MZYgJeKD2O2gp45oxPgwO13GBC1LIoJcIWOUHCmfKkwhVCc/nvIjoMOcJSsQ0uCjCt pCysHv4ioAmRcGq1x9CpTlUdDL59t2RUNinoF+VpCT3y6aoplS6kkdikiFLhad/2yVZt 1QSzOU8PgJ7CfFa3nX/mz49nc6DqhFQr41ILg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; b=wkSLpj3XMa+ufRd62OqJKB49BcQrfiyD7auY2lDhJsc2a/CSwmt5vsyERDh7+VHWJM v+Rj9opUducQGAxkeMSKZug3IGSRt/ILska02VHKLk7oCvRI2i9nu8JhBDT03qe1MqPO 7Srj9nEyrkUDb+KMU7fUgiAecUWxzD2peUjmU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.239.183.32 with SMTP id s32mr207175hbg.170.1255745316122; Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:08:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <67551.40241.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <365020.54217.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <96f789a60910121208q1e41007are2c3f6c2ccd650f2@mail.gmail.com> <805802.30080.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <12d58c160910141214v358af3f6i7bf799962c614c53@mail.gmail.com> <664156.23111.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <12d58c160910161144k7cce57f8x37db2904720b1b15@mail.gmail.com> <67551.40241.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:08:36 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 6884a14b005d651f Message-ID: <12d58c160910161908g7cb4696cpdb01f283d2328e75@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Esther Chapter 2 From: "komfo,amonan" To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485f792b67ef05d047617fd17 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: komfoamonan@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 5689 Lines: 125 --001485f792b67ef05d047617fd17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:07 PM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > > > *From:* "komfo,amonan" > *To:* jbovlaste@lojban.org > *Sent:* Fri, October 16, 2009 2:44:55 PM > *Subject:* [jbovlaste] Re: Esther Chapter 2 > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Daniel Brockman wrote: > >> >> A small planet is not small in the property/dimension of being a >> planet. I >> >> think the underlying tanru, {cmalu plini} expands to {cmalu je plini} >> or >> >> {c1=p1 cmalu c2 c3 gi'e plini p2 p3 p4}. >> > >> > But even with your tanru-based expansion, you still can't avoid 'the >> > property of being a planet'. After all, what is c2? >> >> Something like {lo ka canlu ce'u}? >> > > That was exactly my thinking. > > Possibly. But I still don't see the problem in having something have the > property of > being a planet. When are properties no longer properties? Obviously, for > example, > length is a property. So is area, though now we have a property > that is a combination of two properties. How about flatness, now a > property of more > properties. The property of being a planet is nothing more than a vast > number of properties. So? We may not be used to thinking in such terms, > but then > lojban is supposed to make us think in new ways, isn't it? > > totus > > I'm not arguing that {ka plini} is always & everywhere invalid or nonsensical. I'm just arguing that a small planet is not small in the property of being a planet. It's small by planetary standards, but that's c3. mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan --001485f792b67ef05d047617fd17 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:07 PM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:

From: "komfo,amonan" <komfoamonan@gmail.com= >
To: jbovlaste@lojban.org
Sent: Fri, October 16, 2009 2:44:55 P= M
Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: E= sther Chapter 2

On Fri, = Oct 16, 2009 at 2:41 PM, Daniel Brockman <daniel@brockma= n.se> wrote:
>> A small planet is not small in the property/dimension of bein= g a planet. I
>> think the underlying tanru, {cmalu plini} expands= to {cmalu je plini} or
>> {c1=3Dp1 cmalu c2 c3 gi'e plini p2 = p3 p4}.
>
> But even with your tanru-based expansion, you still can't = avoid 'the
> property of being a planet'.=C2=A0 After all, wh= at is c2?

Something like {lo ka canlu ce'u}?

That was exactly my thinking.

Possibly.=C2=A0 = But I still don't see the problem in having something have the property= of
being a planet.=C2=A0 When are properties no longer properties?=C2= =A0 Obviously, for example,
length is a property.=C2=A0 So is area, though now we have a proper= ty
that is a combination of two properties.=C2=A0 How about flatness, = now a property of more
properties.=C2=A0 The property of being a planet=C2=A0is nothing mo= re than=C2=A0a vast
number of properties.=C2=A0 So?=C2=A0 We may not be used to thinkin= g in such terms, but then
lojban is supposed to make us think in new ways, isn't it?
=C2=A0
totus
I'm= not arguing that {ka plini} is always & everywhere invalid or nonsensi= cal. I'm just arguing that a small planet is not small in the property = of being a planet. It's small by planetary standards, but that's c3= .

mu'o mi'e komfo,amonan
--001485f792b67ef05d047617fd17--