Return-path: X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.2.5 (2008-06-10) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 required=5.0 tests=AWL,BAYES_00,HTML_MESSAGE, SPF_PASS autolearn=ham version=3.2.5 Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:48:47 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NlXKc-0004kb-R7; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:48:32 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:47:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NlXJj-0004kV-Th for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:47:32 -0800 Received: from mail-vw0-f53.google.com ([209.85.212.53]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1NlXJg-0004kD-9M for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:47:31 -0800 Received: by vws17 with SMTP id 17so456025vws.40 for ; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:47:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=7+t8EyHHlKmbdcMyiGExExmXTYv69QKngfAuBgdW6GY=; b=gnOYlmBb7FHOVbBwPwiX5T8xYKX8NRgkK+FQZASx0lX0Q30kFM0R2WzNvb2Owg+uCn ZXt9Y6SrrAkD7mEJbLcOTBVuQ0uCjuSFOaUSa8jSbpVxyMkn+pXGriSpsbq570a1blfg gWdk4yH2wxzy7JTTVaeOmV4LZZOUGsagrkdUM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=JNuE0qLNQoW7j7VUqZXAoP75HAxPdAQ3Xtw+cxV+X2jXlkQyeD3wCU6wFz0cHBymCT H2ACwwar19VPfB2E5gVVi0fSdjje4t/laKnpf9jnElTGD0/7NSPldKkLXM+wYTXwUb6+ 94r7VQKLgFiYLpXrJx9FvnTEl0+CWezxp6J4E= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.89.83 with SMTP id d19mr1734771vcm.209.1267318042135; Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:47:22 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <23f4e3391002271407w151d01d3kf65a3c16e073709e@mail.gmail.com> References: <5715b9301002231246w218ac892lb1b4f5cd15e36b75@mail.gmail.com> <201002240035.18280.phma@phma.optus.nu> <23f4e3391002232254y656b226epa409c002fde7adb8@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301002232332m32ce5c4ep8bc04f98a4add7c4@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3931002240401w52945f9du6db99bacc6dab7c1@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301002240621kc509cd3u8140a30e162c1902@mail.gmail.com> <23f4e3391002241425o170edc5dge38d323e6efd720a@mail.gmail.com> <4de8c3931002251116g7ed835a0r680c29d0b7ca37e1@mail.gmail.com> <5715b9301002271026m1aa00bd8xd4ca1179ae6c6efb@mail.gmail.com> <23f4e3391002271407w151d01d3kf65a3c16e073709e@mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 19:47:22 -0500 Message-ID: <5715b9301002271647p832f33fjcdc199987a4a8826@mail.gmail.com> Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: new word: prolijmo'a From: Luke Bergen To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163631073bb80be604809e79b2 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 7148 Lines: 168 --00163631073bb80be604809e79b2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >checkboards, uneven and even grids, bricks or pavement tiling, tartan, >certain carpet patterns, zigzag stitching, pixel art tiles >(particularly the older, low res ones)... So these would be those words that I was talking about when I said > Maybe later if someone wants to describe that pattern that a tic-tac-toe > board makes they could make a bigger lujvo that pulls {linji} into it I think checker boards, pixel art tiles, and a brick wall all exhibit a pattern that is a variation on the basic, standard check pattern. So, is it fair to say that the more general/standard the idea, the smaller the lujvo can comfortably be? While the more specific/non-standard/varied ideas get longer lujvo? e.g. {cicti'a} = "storm" but when we want to get more specific we have {bifyvilcarvi} = "windstorm" So for instance, I wanted to define the word originally because I wanted to translated "handsome checked suit". That seems like a pretty general use of the word to me. On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, David Gowers <00ai99@gmail.com> wrote: > On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > After reading through the chapter on lujvo making in the CLL I'm > beginning > > to wonder how important it really is to perfectly describe exactly what > you > > want to mean. > > If I were making a tanru to mean "checker pattern" I might need to use > vlina > > kurfa dasri morna. But if the true meaning of a lujvo comes from it's > > definition and not strictly it's component gismu (we remove {sel} and > {nun} > > all the time) then do we really need to describe it perfectly with ba'u > 50+ > > gismu? Also, it seems to me that if only a couple of gismu are necessary > to > > describe an idea without other ideas intersecting with it, why add more? > Is > > there anything more obvious than "checker pattern" for kurfa morna to > mean? > > Maybe later if someone wants to describe that pattern that a tic-tac-toe > > board makes they could make a bigger lujvo that pulls {linji} into it. > But > > do we need to make every lujvo as big as the biggest lujvo necessary? > > Do we 'need to make it as big as the biggest lujvo necessary'? :) > I think that would have to be a yes, no matter who you ask. > I guess you probably meant 'as big as the most comfortably unambiguous > lujvo' > or something of the sort. > > > > Therefore, unless many people object, I'm going to create a new word > kurmo'a > > (I've already voted down prolijmo'a). I'll wait for a bit in case > anybody > > is violently opposed to kurmo'a > > That's fair enough for the general public (do we have that here? ;) > and a good point. > I'm just unlikely to use the short version, as it covers too much ground > for me to be comfortable with as an artist: > > checkboards, uneven and even grids, bricks or pavement tiling, tartan, > certain carpet patterns, zigzag stitching, pixel art tiles > (particularly the older, low res ones)... > > For the reasons you pointed out, I *will* use kurmo'a in my gimp > translation though. > > > > --00163631073bb80be604809e79b2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >checkboards, uneven and even grids, bricks or pavement tiling, tartan,<= br>>certain carpet patterns, zigzag stitching, pixel art tiles
>(p= articularly the older, low res ones)...

So these would b= e those words that I was talking about when I said=A0
>=A0Maybe later if someone wants to describe that pattern that a tic-tac= -toe
> board makes they could make a bigger lujvo that pulls {linji= } into it

I think checker boards, pixel art tiles, and a= brick wall all exhibit a pattern that is a variation on the basic, standar= d check pattern. =A0So, is it fair to say that the more general/standard th= e idea, the smaller the lujvo can comfortably be? =A0While the more specifi= c/non-standard/varied ideas get longer lujvo?

e.g. =A0{cicti'a} =3D "storm" but when we= want to get more specific we have {bifyvilcarvi} =3D "windstorm"=

So for instance, I wanted to define the word orig= inally because I wanted to translated "handsome=A0checked suit". = =A0That seems like a pretty general use of the word to me.

On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 5:07 PM, D= avid Gowers <00ai9= 9@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 4:56 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> After reading through the chapter on lujvo making in the CLL I'm b= eginning
> to wonder how important it really is to perfectly describe exactly wha= t you
> want to mean.
> If I were making a tanru to mean "checker pattern" I might n= eed to use vlina
> kurfa dasri morna. =A0But if the true meaning of a lujvo comes from it= 's
> definition and not strictly it's component gismu (we remove {sel} = and {nun}
> all the time) then do we really need to describe it perfectly with ba&= #39;u 50+
> gismu? =A0Also, it seems to me that if only a couple of gismu are nece= ssary to
> describe an idea without other ideas intersecting with it, why add mor= e? =A0Is
> there anything more obvious than "checker pattern" for kurfa= morna to mean?
> =A0Maybe later if someone wants to describe that pattern that a tic-ta= c-toe
> board makes they could make a bigger lujvo that pulls {linji} into it.= =A0But
> do we need to make every lujvo as big as the biggest lujvo necessary?<= br>
Do we 'need to make it as big as the biggest lujvo necessary'= ? :)
I think that would have to be a yes, no matter who you ask.
I guess you probably meant 'as big as the most comfortably unambiguous = lujvo'
or something of the sort.


> Therefore, unless many people object, I'm going to create a new wo= rd kurmo'a
> (I've already voted down prolijmo'a). =A0I'll wait for a b= it in case anybody
> is violently opposed to kurmo'a

That's fair enough for the general public (do we have that here? = ;)
and a good point.
I'm just unlikely to use the short version, as it covers too much groun= d
for me to be comfortable with as an artist:

checkboards, uneven and even grids, bricks or pavement tiling, tartan,
certain carpet patterns, zigzag stitching, pixel art tiles
(particularly the older, low res ones)...

For the reasons you pointed out, I *will* use kurmo'a in my gimp
translation though.




--00163631073bb80be604809e79b2--