Return-path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.0 (2010-01-18) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE autolearn=ham version=3.3.0 X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.0 (2010-01-18) on chain.digitalkingdom.org Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:27:45 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O2Gfi-0001Ff-Jg; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:27:25 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O2Gdq-0001FW-3R for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:25:26 -0700 Received: from cdptpa-omtalb.mail.rr.com ([75.180.132.122]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1O2Gdj-0001Es-E5 for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2010 21:25:25 -0700 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=W/hBQ06qw3sd7s/ivY51N5seo0sJ1CJjfZA0aPhrSFo= c=1 sm=0 a=ORa4HqFjfvEA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:17 a=S4e06vx47X-B8s3J5_UA:9 a=aMdNL7lw7LKKat8PtNcA:7 a=CfzHt4uSyaTdbVKtYqgCT-NIM1cA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=ITGCJgwGTuG7H/gKGaarIQ==:117 X-Cloudmark-Score: 0 X-Originating-IP: 71.71.198.100 Received: from [71.71.198.100] ([71.71.198.100:58579] helo=chausie) by cdptpa-oedge02.mail.rr.com (envelope-from ) (ecelerity 2.2.2.39 r()) with ESMTP id 70/89-13915-72596CB4; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:25:12 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by chausie (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55849122E for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:25:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Pierre Abbat To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: ci'erkei Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2010 00:25:06 -0400 User-Agent: KMail/1.9.6 (enterprise 0.20070907.709405) References: <130411.96485.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <130411.96485.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <201004150025.09222.phma@phma.optus.nu> X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: phma@phma.optus.nu Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 1037 Lines: 34 On Wednesday 14 April 2010 13:58:47 A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > coi ro do > > > ci'erkei is found in gi'uste but not jbovlaste. > > So here is a proposed definition: > > k1 plays game k2=c1, governed by rules c2 interrelating game parts > (physical or conceptual) c3 > > which comes from: > > ciste: c1 (mass) system interrelated by structure c2 among > components c3 (set) displaying c4 (ka) > and > kelci: k1 [agent] plays with plaything/toy k2 > > I'm not really happy with c2 as 'structure' and "rules' are not > quite the same to me, and we don't play with games but in them. I've heard of something called "structured play", but I forget what it is. In my dialect one plays with a toy, plays a game, and plays an instrument. In French, on joue avec un jouet (je crois), joue à un jeu, et joue d'un instrument. In Lojban cu selci lo selkei gi'e jivna fi lo terjvi (unless it's a solitaire) gi'e zgipli lo zgitci. I'd say "play in" for "te draci fi". Pierre -- Jews use a lunisolar calendar; Muslims use a solely lunar calendar.