Return-path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS, T_DKIM_INVALID,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:15:07 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OYKiL-000053-Aj; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:14:41 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OYKhd-00004w-EQ for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:13:54 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f53.google.com ([209.85.212.53]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OYKhZ-0008WB-0u for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:13:53 -0700 Received: by vws15 with SMTP id 15so4951240vws.40 for ; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:13:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=YbbN5yz2PiHJBvHEW0b6l7UTlKdWdC5ww/kWxmFyRE0=; b=XIo7TLpNuB40HotV6TY19Dbi25+wT2rHOi8iss20WnGfpQZ6xLTulPhO1+eGYNBcrh Fgd8PuIQ9J+tP6+gPBshZPJAYnRGNNYIuGeN+g9B0yBrPlVS+SiNl/RQzK8Lq1HvzaEQ 9i1MuMoZ6+jflSb7J3rkhvRU2Fuov2PVTaTM8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=bBNuRc14ptSvlj8rfeFces+2FJD8YoavWxHRfjPu3OUPT0DPpnPmpH5YQpZzeFHm3t 6HQsnoj/WotbMr8glfjacSRAOt/bPF+BmdnnTi7uMBAzojLR3wWiDf+F6gzZk1n9IQ4B C/jfT2lQQ+INCLZ8/nyxh/LTdfIwddR1cMX3o= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.121.210 with SMTP id i18mr7000280vcr.148.1278947622273; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.165.206 with HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 08:13:42 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <130555.40063.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20100712115758.GA13842@lake.fysh.org> <267856.88875.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 11:13:42 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Alice in Wonderland 03 From: Luke Bergen To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636d34cebb6445f048b32328b X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 5902 Lines: 157 --001636d34cebb6445f048b32328b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 mmm, this is why I hate English. Words shouldn't have primary, secondary, and a hundred other possible meanings. So, given this English definition, what would we call the hair on a cats face that is not the long vibrissae? Which of these meanings is referred to in alice? Is it talking about {ganse zei kerfa} or {flira zei kerfa}? I'm guessing that the rabbit is talking about his {ganse zei kerfa noi bu'u le flira}. Maybe both words should be defined and la .alis should be modified to say {gaskre} instead of {zbikre}. On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM, John Cowan wrote: > "Whiskers" in English refers primarily to human facial hair, and only > secondarily to the vibrissae of cats, rats, etc. The OED says: "The > hair that grows on an adult man's face; formerly commonly applied to > that on the upper lip, now called moustache, and sometimes to (or > including) that on the chin (beard); now usu. restricted to that on > the cheeks or sides of the face." > > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Luke Bergen > wrote: > > I thought calling a mans facial hair "whiskers" was just a way to be > funny > > or something. Male facial hair is not whiskers. I'm pretty sure that no > > human possesses whiskers. > > I think I would tend to agree with zefram here. > > On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:55 AM, A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > >> > >> > > >> > A. PIEKARSKI wrote: > >> > >1) > >> > >k1 zbikre k2=n2 > >> > >k1 are the whiskers of k2=n2 > >> > >from > >> > >k1 kerfa k2 lo nazbi be n2 n3 ku k3 > >> > > >> > The distinguishing feature of whiskers is not their location but their > >> > function: they are sensory organs. This distinguishes them from most > >> > nasal hair, and indeed they are found not only on faces but also on > >> > forelegs. I suggest {gaskre} ({ganse kerfa}), with a place structure > >> > such as: > >> > > >> > k1=g3 are the whiskers attached to k2=g1 at locus k3 for the > >> > detection of stimuli g2 under conditions g4 > >> > > >> But not all whiskers are sensory hairs (vibrissa). My neighbour has a > >> few whiskers on his nose, but hardly sensory. {zbikre} would still be > >> more appropriate. > >> > >> However, {gaskre] seems a useful lujvo whose gloss would be: > >> whisker; sensory hair > >> > >> totus > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > --001636d34cebb6445f048b32328b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable mmm, this is why I hate English. =A0Words shouldn't have primary, secon= dary, and a hundred other possible meanings.

So, given t= his English definition, what would we call the hair on a cats face that is = not the long vibrissae?

Which of these meanings is referred to in alice? =A0Is = it talking about {ganse zei kerfa} or {flira zei kerfa}? =A0I'm guessin= g that the rabbit is talking about his {ganse zei kerfa noi bu'u le fli= ra}.

Maybe both words should be defined and la .alis should = be modified to say {gaskre} instead of {zbikre}.

On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM, John Cowan <= cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
"Whiskers" in English refers prim= arily to human facial hair, and only
secondarily to the vibrissae of cats, rats, etc. =A0The OED says: =A0"= The
hair that grows on an adult man's face; formerly commonly applied to that on the upper lip, now called moustache, and sometimes to (or
including) that on the chin (beard); now usu. restricted to that on
the cheeks or sides of the face."


On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought calling a mans facial hair "whiskers" was just a w= ay to be funny
> or something. =A0Male facial hair is not whiskers. =A0I'm pretty s= ure that no
> human possesses whiskers.
> I think I would tend to agree with zefram here.
> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:55 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > A. PIEKARSKI wrote:
>> > >1)
>> > >k1 zbikre k2=3Dn2
>> > >k1 are the whiskers of k2=3Dn2
>> > >from
>> > >k1 kerfa k2 lo nazbi be n2 n3 ku k3
>> >
>> > The distinguishing feature of whiskers is not their location = but their
>> > function: they are sensory organs.=A0 This distinguishes them= from most
>> > nasal hair, and indeed they are found not only on faces but a= lso on
>> > forelegs.=A0 I suggest {gaskre} ({ganse kerfa}), with a place= structure
>> > such as:
>> >
>> > =A0=A0=A0 k1=3Dg3 are the whiskers attached to k2=3Dg1 at loc= us k3 for the
>> > =A0=A0=A0 detection of stimuli g2 under conditions g4
>> >
>> But not all whiskers are sensory hairs (vibrissa).=A0 My neighbour= has a
>> few whiskers on his nose, but=A0hardly sensory.=A0 {zbikre} would = still be
>> more appropriate.
>>
>> However, {gaskre] seems a useful lujvo whose gloss would be:
>> whisker; sensory hair
>>
>> totus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>




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