Return-path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:17:13 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OYQMi-0003sd-7M; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:16:43 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OYQLu-0003sW-Db for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:15:50 -0700 Received: from n13.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.40]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with smtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1OYQLq-0003sL-Az for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:15:50 -0700 Received: from [209.191.108.97] by n13.bullet.mail.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2010 21:15:39 -0000 Received: from [66.196.114.78] by t4.bullet.mud.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2010 21:15:39 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp307.mail.re3.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 12 Jul 2010 21:15:39 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 148180.1554.bm@omp307.mail.re3.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 68715 invoked by uid 60001); 12 Jul 2010 21:15:39 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rogers.com; s=s1024; t=1278969339; bh=AF+vmlwlzlM12CibQdXHRzewR3C7ZWLmHCGiUTSHsvA=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=WZjJJ6Z1230De2T8pQJKAMeNEaWRsLDG8y+K2VQ59Rygb3/wVW9LOj39gBnSyeX1bd7pN65FQ3KM6z/7sgCRBButxhaFolTZknt7L67E8JGz7Lg7VWrXOCVwbqDphs8oJ1oU26+SelaFgi8zsS87epq5Tq5ns9zaNo6QbM+KkE8= DomainKey-Signature:a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=rogers.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:References:Date:From:Subject:To:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=lJnI3/5436ngEaXE06QfyQrn3o+c1w82hs9YCFAnvDpOrQ38k8fEvlUDDqOB5yrs3AglNaGc4Fr6P+auAOfCC0L1eCsS2pcbWt+GdNDP8bMXziY0bSe6s/7r5h5sCwAmMTn6WJ7adk57/w15j4Lcbmm9ZjIQKJ/TkVLgOrKU4Hc=; Message-ID: <47752.68661.qm@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: t8pMvF4VM1kWNcOiBxvq44zv7yQN42vXjHrQPDn6blVap4B Sv44zEF8mBDEMbDbigELtgT0xGTHcirRps3LXAk2Khbl4P.ci7Rh3Tr.Meh4 H6uvTAGhrjAewgq4YxjEfTurRA0eSOgj_kJHKfD6V8esxMgXX6joquxnRjdA 71x7j4CNVR4UhZAgoTR2yVfW1AUrgiYjtnYiwdUtCZ2v6I5d.VbV1pm84eTI dbqZFeavszU5ciib6DXkywGFspYYTNFSynQ8MuZhRqqIk1FES89dFLZ81I81 U8IkWxDDVNV6hLIaki6XnUjxWpG.y7cuIk.K9JHEp8PdR_iuOfQlJYTSFgUf rR4i7svhXgWt1muzfStbN2oLYoiCLGVdkSeVxuBBQAi9f6qbQSQ-- Received: from [99.229.170.85] by web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:15:38 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/420.4 YahooMailWebService/0.8.104.276605 References: <130555.40063.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20100712115758.GA13842@lake.fysh.org> <267856.88875.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 14:15:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "A. PIEKARSKI" Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Alice in Wonderland 03 To: jbovlaste@lojban.org In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-452533193-1278969338=:68661" X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: totus@rogers.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 7467 Lines: 108 --0-452533193-1278969338=:68661 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A=0A=0A>=0A>mmm, this is why I hate English. =A0Words shouldn't have prim= ary, secondary, and a =0A>hundred other possible meanings. =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>= So, given this English definition, what would we call the hair on a cats fa= ce =0A>that is not the long vibrissae?=0A>=0A>=0A>Which of these meanings i= s referred to in alice? =A0Is it talking about {ganse zei =0A>kerfa} or {fl= ira zei kerfa}? =A0I'm guessing that the rabbit is talking about his =0A>{g= anse zei kerfa noi bu'u le flira}.=0A>=0A>=0A>Maybe both words should be de= fined and la .alis should be modified to say =0A>{gaskre} instead of {zbikr= e}.=0A>=0A>Thanks all.=A0 I will enter both {zbikre} and {gaskre} into jbov= laste.=A0=A0Xorxes and =0A>I=A0believe the White Rabbit would be quite happ= y with {zbikre}.=0A>=0A>totus=0A>=0A>=0A>On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM, = John Cowan wrote:=0A>=0A>"Whiskers" in English refers prim= arily to human facial hair, and only=0A>>secondarily to the vibrissae of ca= ts, rats, etc. =A0The OED says: =A0"The=0A>>hair that grows on an adult man= 's face; formerly commonly applied to=0A>>that on the upper lip, now called= moustache, and sometimes to (or=0A>>including) that on the chin (beard); n= ow usu. restricted to that on=0A>>the cheeks or sides of the face."=0A>>=0A= >>=0A>>=0A>>On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Luke Bergen wrote:=0A>>> I thought calling a mans facial hair "whiskers" was just= a way to be funny=0A>>> or something. =A0Male facial hair is not whiskers.= =A0I'm pretty sure that no=0A>>> human possesses whiskers.=0A>>> I think I= would tend to agree with zefram here.=0A>>> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:55 A= M, A. PIEKARSKI wrote:=0A>>>>=0A>>>> >=0A>>>> > A. PIEKA= RSKI wrote:=0A>>>> > >1)=0A>>>> > >k1 zbikre k2=3Dn2=0A>>>> > >k1 are the w= hiskers of k2=3Dn2=0A>>>> > >from=0A>>>> > >k1 kerfa k2 lo nazbi be n2 n3 k= u k3=0A>>>> >=0A>>>> > The distinguishing feature of whiskers is not their = location but their=0A>>>> > function: they are sensory organs.=A0 This dist= inguishes them from most=0A>>>> > nasal hair, and indeed they are found not= only on faces but also on=0A>>>> > forelegs.=A0 I suggest {gaskre} ({ganse= kerfa}), with a place structure=0A>>>> > such as:=0A>>>> >=0A>>>> > =A0=A0= =A0 k1=3Dg3 are the whiskers attached to k2=3Dg1 at locus k3 for the=0A>>>>= > =A0=A0=A0 detection of stimuli g2 under conditions g4=0A>>>> >=0A>>>> Bu= t not all whiskers are sensory hairs (vibrissa).=A0 My neighbour has a=0A>>= >> few whiskers on his nose, but=A0hardly sensory.=A0 {zbikre} would still = be=0A>>>> more appropriate.=0A>>>>=0A>>>> However, {gaskre] seems a useful = lujvo whose gloss would be:=0A>>>> whisker; sensory hair=0A>>>>=0A>>>> totu= s=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>>=0A>>>=0A>>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>>=0A>=0A> --0-452533193-1278969338=:68661 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

=0A
=0A
=0A


mmm, this is why I hate English.  Words s= houldn't have primary, secondary, and a hundred other possible meanings. = =0A

=0A
So, given this English definition, what would we = call the hair on a cats face that is not the long vibrissae?
=0A
<= BR>
=0A
Which of these meanings is referred to in alice?  Is = it talking about {ganse zei kerfa} or {flira zei kerfa}?  I'm guessing= that the rabbit is talking about his {ganse zei kerfa noi bu'u le flira}.<= /DIV>=0A

=0A
Maybe both words should be defined and la .a= lis should be modified to say {gaskre} instead of {zbikre}.
=0A
&n= bsp;
=0A
Thanks all.  I will enter both {zbikre} and {gaskre}= into jbovlaste.  Xorxes and I believe the White Rabbit woul= d be quite happy with {zbikre}.
=0A
 
=0A
totus
<= BR>
=0A
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 10:40 AM, John= Cowan <cowan@ccil.org> wrote:
=0A
"Whiskers" in E= nglish refers primarily to human facial hair, and only
secondarily to th= e vibrissae of cats, rats, etc.  The OED says:  "The
hair that= grows on an adult man's face; formerly commonly applied to
that on the = upper lip, now called moustache, and sometimes to (or
including) that on= the chin (beard); now usu. restricted to that on
the cheeks or sides of= the face."
=0A
=0A
=0A


On Mon, Jul= 12, 2010 at 9:37 AM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I thought calling a mans faci= al hair "whiskers" was just a way to be funny
> or something.  M= ale facial hair is not whiskers.  I'm pretty sure that no
> huma= n possesses whiskers.
> I think I would tend to agree with zefram her= e.
> On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 8:55 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> ><= BR>>> > A. PIEKARSKI wrote:
>> > >1)
>> &g= t; >k1 zbikre k2=3Dn2
>> > >k1 are the whiskers of k2=3Dn= 2
>> > >from
>> > >k1 kerfa k2 lo nazbi be n2= n3 ku k3
>> >
>> > The distinguishing feature of whiskers is not their location but their
>= > > function: they are sensory organs.  This distinguishes them = from most
>> > nasal hair, and indeed they are found not only o= n faces but also on
>> > forelegs.  I suggest {gaskre} ({g= anse kerfa}), with a place structure
>> > such as:
>> = >
>> >     k1=3Dg3 are the whiskers attached = to k2=3Dg1 at locus k3 for the
>> >     detectio= n of stimuli g2 under conditions g4
>> >
>> But not al= l whiskers are sensory hairs (vibrissa).  My neighbour has a
>&g= t; few whiskers on his nose, but hardly sensory.  {zbikre} would = still be
>> more appropriate.
>>
>> However, {ga= skre] seems a useful lujvo whose gloss would be:
>> whisker; senso= ry hair
>>
>> totus
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
<= BR>

=0A

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