Return-path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS, T_DKIM_INVALID,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:01:45 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ObfTh-0006vD-3w; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:01:22 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:00:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ObfTC-0006uB-HN for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:00:47 -0700 Received: from mail-vw0-f53.google.com ([209.85.212.53]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1ObfSu-0006jI-0b for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:00:45 -0700 Received: by vws15 with SMTP id 15so2502283vws.40 for ; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:00:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=ZnaVhOLXJsGQ2sbf/xMoS8fgg53yNL5rjPJcDSVxSSo=; b=mvXO9p5k3MwtPXsF1Tr+OpaS7s1WWZ0MPVDSM4z1NL+PITLYtPJgFvx4EU1YnzQ4xu e3ZlRMl4PMJlDKnoQDxPyYQ8mKWRlrUcIJKjqSWw1O4cPWu3YTORz15om9JN7XsZVuCq FpDgqASET84DGOGwq4OgGaa4PEzaq2e74XOaw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=NrsZt+/6xihvFBXR28KMyVmFDHUWYEZaK7VXY6opbxcXXDCmnWc6DwA5I/wN6ngnx7 G2T9x5EK1YG82TnDmFUmulYUq0CCIXd5/CpOzGFu338OBD6+Ff7qyP80m4tE2REaTpAg uQ1zHDapZM7XgPgL3zeabW5jueWPtD7jA70FU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.116.129 with SMTP id m1mr311953vcq.231.1279742421452; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:00:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.76.204 with HTTP; Wed, 21 Jul 2010 13:00:21 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20100721191512.GS16391@nvg.org> Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 16:00:21 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: stuffed animal From: Luke Bergen To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001485e772b86f4f4c048beb400b X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 4160 Lines: 107 --001485e772b86f4f4c048beb400b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's a good point. Why was it defined that way. It seems like most word= s of this type usually describe the state (cikna comes to mind) and allow for -bi'o or -gau to turn it into doing the thing or becoming the state. Last I had heard, there is a %0 chance that a gismu definition will be changed. If this is still true, what would be the best way to go about this? lujvo definitions are whatever we choose to make them and don't HAVE to be built exactly from their expanded tanru. We could ignore this weird definition and just define the lujvo as if tisna has a state-type definition. 2010/7/21 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Arnt Richard Johansen > wrote: > > > > The English Wikipedia mentions stuffed toy, stuffie, plush toy, soft to= y, > and cuddly toy. > > > > Of the languages I understand, English is the only language in which th= e > word for stuffed animal explicitly includes its stuffedness. Other langua= ges > use words based on its purpose (cuddling/hugging), or its composition > (fabric). > > In Spanish it's "peluche", which comes from French (as does the > English "plush"). > > One problem with "tisna" is that it doesn't mean "stuffed" but > "becomes stuffed", it refers to the change of state, not the state. At > least if we take the gi'uste definition seriously. It would be more > useful to have a basic word for stuffed than for becoming stuffed, > because the change of state is easier to derive from the final state > (by adding -bi'o) than viceversa. > > ("Stuffed animal" sounds like something you would eat for Thanksgiving, > btw.) > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > > --001485e772b86f4f4c048beb400b Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable That's a good point. =A0Why was it defined that way. =A0It seems like m= ost words of this type usually describe the state (cikna comes to mind) and= allow for -bi'o or -gau to turn it into doing the thing or becoming th= e state. =A0

Last I had heard, there is a %0 chance that a gismu definiti= on will be changed. =A0If this is still true, what would be the best way to= go about this? =A0lujvo definitions are whatever we choose to make them an= d don't HAVE to be built exactly from their expanded tanru. =A0We could= ignore this weird definition and just define the lujvo as if tisna has a s= tate-type definition.

2010/7/21 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com>
On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 4:15 PM, Arnt Richard Johansen &l= t;arj@nvg.org> wrote:
>
> The English Wikipedia mentions stuffed toy, st= uffie, plush toy, soft toy, and cuddly toy.
>
> Of the languages I understand, English is the only language in which t= he word for stuffed animal explicitly includes its stuffedness. Other langu= ages use words based on its purpose (cuddling/hugging), or its composition = (fabric).

In Spanish it's "peluche", which comes from French (as = does the
English "plush").

One problem with "tisna" is that it doesn't mean "stuffe= d" but
"becomes stuffed", it refers to the change of state, not the stat= e. At
least if we take the gi'uste definition seriously. It would be more
useful to have a basic word for stuffed than for becoming stuffed,
because the change of state is easier to derive from the final state
(by adding -bi'o) than viceversa.

("Stuffed animal" sounds like something you would eat for Thanksg= iving, btw.)

mu'o mi'e xorxes




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