Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org
Delivery-date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 09:32:29 -0700
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;        d=gmail.com; s=gamma;        h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to         :content-type:content-transfer-encoding;        b=IH0VBgwYofs2eQBEDVl3KPzBfsB857aamvqQaiz1yyKoOdWYEcUKlQhtXk48k3VUSz         Sgjn8diPifV/XCPMCxzYkED39HYafHd7BsqMGSr9c8FmVqUS1utShQpox8xv7BmHh/Nf         llbbD0OyGJbxHh21Pwd4UVzzno9MiZ/8hHXMc=
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <278347.68416.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <895447.11228.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com>	<AANLkTi=Yfk4fFGZoABtmFOan=5BzEYy-8Wfx8CsV7BdL@mail.gmail.com>	<278347.68416.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 12:30:37 -0400
Message-ID: <AANLkTikSa2GKPFyXa=SLR1miYsVpfGzn9DqkDBNbR2=x@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Alice in Wonderland 06
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: jbovlaste@lojban.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org
Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org
Precedence: bulk
Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org
Content-Length: 2474
Lines: 74

On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 11:32 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > 1)
>> > p1=l1 lampagre p2 p3 p4 l2
>> > p1=l1 passes through p2 to p3 from p4 by l2
>> > from
>> > p1=l1 pagre p2 p3 p4 gi'e lamji l2 l3 l4
>> > drop l3,l4
>> >
>>
>>   I'm not sure what the l2 part does?  This describes someone who
>> passes through a barrier that is next to something else?  Not sure of
>> the utility.  What's the English being translated here, if I may ask?
>> (I sincerely hope not "passes by".)
>
> 'She took down a jar from one of the shelves as she passed.'
>

  I was afraid of that.. don't really like pagre for that.   It seems
more litru to me.  The focus on pagre is on the p2, which is a
fendi/te sepli/se ragve, which I don't see as being the case here.
Again, not your word choice, so I'm not faulting you for it.  You are
jsut trying to be descriptivist.


>> > 2)
>> > p1 rutpesxu g2
>> > p1 is a jam/jelly/confiture/marmalde/ fruit preserve made from g2
>> > from
>> > p1 pesxu tu'a lo grute be g2
>> >
>>
>>   Curious as to why you went with "tu'a lo grute be g2" rather than
>> simply "g1".  I think I know the answer (you wanted a flavor/variety,
>> rather than a specific fruit), and don't REALLY have a problem with
>> it, but it would seem to me that g1 would have accomplished the same
>> thing in the context.
>
> But it's g2 that defines what kind of fruit it is.  Without it its just a jam
> made from some unspecified fruit.
>>

  No, because even if it's defined as a paste made from a fruit g1, I can say:
mi pu citka lo rutpesxu be lo fragari .ije ku'i nelrai tu'a lo
rutpesxu be lo vanjba It certainly is made from SOME particular
strawberries/grapes, and it's also true that "lo fragari cu grute la'o
lin. Fragaria lin.", so the strawberry is a g1, not the g2.


>> > 3)
>> > j1 nimryjdu n2
>> > j1 is a quantity of marmalade made from n2
>> > from
>> > j1 jduli lo nimre be n2
>> >
>>
>>   Pretty much the same question as above.  Although it seems to me
>> that one important piece is missing in using this word as a gloss for
>> "marmalade".  A defining part of marmalade isn't necessarily citrus
>> (although, I concede it's almost universally true), but that it
>> contains the rind of the fruit.  (I know it's not your creation).
>
> You are right about the rind.  So maybe marmalde should be
> j1 rutpiljdu g2
> and nimryjdu just a citrus jelly.
>

   That's what I would say, at any rate.
             --gejyspa