Return-path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS, T_DKIM_INVALID,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:43:43 -0700 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oy7oD-0003bZ-20; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:43:17 -0700 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:42:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oy7nW-0003bB-CB for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:42:34 -0700 Received: from mail-pz0-f53.google.com ([209.85.210.53]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Oy7nR-0003aF-Vb for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:42:34 -0700 Received: by pzk36 with SMTP id 36so3312618pzk.40 for ; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:42:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=Ip+fal9WD+NmyuMQ8Err5YBf/we3DHJJP+zjNJhvEWs=; b=SEtINknmtpe3v0FtWothrbr36aK0LLgrd72NZMpTI2RQ7r8gySV5J57dG0zSmqa9Sj r7ZRdE+stwQ6S4ewlRHYNTA6YDjLsFVFJ/LAO5gAa6yIOSK7CaUmWQ6EC+Q210CwfHbf 41WRDMXXJ8m5a7bJ62nJldjdHPvxPqtIQe8ZE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=ZUR/JelMztenoX42Px3PqEUCcAYbe28GESwrRknBgdKYD2gEV/8OUVkaKqN9dLTnrC Pvh5xM0EB3F27Bu2R1eqVOZuZgSBae61iKfmoUCxttOL5NoSS1uUHRrMOHYwf/IaEFgb REGDdlUFW8/hxMInKcE75StmAku8Nd/vX6WdU= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.162.13 with SMTP id k13mr9439206wfe.318.1285094544214; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.191.134 with HTTP; Tue, 21 Sep 2010 11:42:24 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7531.25333.qm@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <705787.13348.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <680042.9852.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 14:42:24 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Alice in Wonderland 08 From: Michael Turniansky To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd14fb6cf8a7d0490c9631f X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: mturniansky@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 4887 Lines: 94 --000e0cd14fb6cf8a7d0490c9631f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Stela Selckiku wrote: > 2010/9/15 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > But there is no relationship that is particularly relevant between > > the probability of an event happening and the fact that someone > > hopes that it happens. > > It might be that there's no particular relationship between "hoping" > and the probability of something happening, but it's handed down to us > by the Lojban gods that there is a relationship between a "pacna" and > what they hope for and the probability of it happening. Taking that > as a given, I have no problem rationalising it. Here's how I'd > explain my understanding of "pacna": > > The pacna is considering an event which may or may not occur (from > their perspective, anyway-- it might be that it's already happened or > not and they haven't found out yet which). They're considering in > particular the terpa'a of that event, they're thinking about whether > it's going to happen or not and what the likelihood is. They want the > selpa'a to occur, so they're hoping that either the terpa'a will be > high enough or they'll be lucky enough that it does occur. If it's > still possible for them to affect the outcome somehow, they may even > be acting in ways that they think will increase the terpa'a. > > mi'e la stela selckiku > mu'o > The reason that the x3 exists is simple. It's English-centric. When thinking about the concept expressed by the English words "wish", "hope" an= d "expect", (and for that matter "dread") the jbobau team realized that the three terms were identical in one respect, that x1 believes that a future event x2 will come to pass. They differ in another respect -- the subjective reality that x2 will in fact come to pass. So by adding the x3, we can distinguish between three English words with one lojbannic word. --gejyspa --000e0cd14fb6cf8a7d0490c9631f Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 4:05 PM, Stela Selckiku = <selckiku@gmail.= com> wrote:
2010/9/15 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas &l= t;jjllambias@gmail.com>:
> But there is no relationship that is particularly re= levant between
> the probability of an event happening and the fact t= hat someone
> hopes that it happens.

It might be that th= ere's no particular relationship between "hoping"
and the probability of something happening, but it's handed down to us<= br>by the Lojban gods that there is a relationship between a "pacna&qu= ot; and
what they hope for and the probability of it happening. =C2=A0Ta= king that
as a given, I have no problem rationalising it. =C2=A0Here's how I'= d
explain my understanding of "pacna":

The pacna is con= sidering an event which may or may not occur (from
their perspective, an= yway-- it might be that it's already happened or
not and they haven't found out yet which). =C2=A0They're considerin= g in
particular the terpa'a of that event, they're thinking abou= t whether
it's going to happen or not and what the likelihood is. = =C2=A0They want the
selpa'a to occur, so they're hoping that either the terpa'a wil= l be
high enough or they'll be lucky enough that it does occur. =C2= =A0If it's
still possible for them to affect the outcome somehow, th= ey may even
be acting in ways that they think will increase the terpa'a.

mi&= #39;e la stela selckiku
mu'o
=C2=A0 The reason that the x3 exists is simple.=C2=A0 It's English= -centric.=C2=A0 When thinking about the concept expressed by the English wo= rds "wish", "hope" and "expect", (and for tha= t matter "dread") the jbobau team realized that the three terms w= ere identical in one respect, that x1 believes that a future event x2=C2=A0= will come to pass.=C2=A0 They differ in another respect -- the subjective r= eality that x2 will in fact come to pass.=C2=A0 So by adding the x3, we can= distinguish between three English words with one lojbannic word.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= --gejyspa
=C2=A0
--000e0cd14fb6cf8a7d0490c9631f--