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Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 10:36:07 -0400
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Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Alice in Wonderland 12
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: jbovlaste@lojban.org
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On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 9:11 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> > 1
>> > )jdijmaji
>> >
>> > jm1=jd1 (mass/jo'u) assemble/meet/gather/[form a caucus] at location jm2
> from
>> > locations jm2 to make decision(s) jd2 (du'u) about matter jd3 (event/state).
>> >
>> > gloss:
>> > caucus
>> > assembly; organized to make decision
>> > meeting; organized to make decision
>> >
>> >
>> > from
>> > jm1=jd1 jmaji jm2 jm3 tezu'e lonu jdice jd2 jd3
>>
>>   It's alright, but (and without having seen the Alice text where it
>> is used in context) I wonder if the decision making might be more
>> germane than the location, entailing your jm2 should be put at the
>> end?  *shrug*  I guess it's a close call.
>
> Isn't that always the problem with new lujvo.  Either choose the most
> 'natural' place order, or stay as close to the place orders of the originating
> gismu.
> If it's a close call, I would stick to the latter.

  I'm sorry, I misspoke.  I didn't see the jm3 (x3) place (because you
accidentally called it jm2 again), which I ALSO think should be placed
at the end (or maybe even dropped, as it doesn't seem very importnat,
although I suppose could see it such as "the OAS decided X on issue Y
in New York, coming from various place in the Western Hemisphere").
Then we have all the jd ordering at the front (answering your
objection) followed by the jm ordering. (i.e. jd1=jm1
assemble/meet/gather/[form a caucus]  to make decision(s) jd2 (du'u)
about matter jd3 (event/state)  at location jm2 from location jm3)


>>
>>
>> > 3) naijgi
>> >
>> > j1 is a patriot of nation n1
>> >
>> > from
>> > j1 jgira lonu n1 natmi n2
>> >
>>
>>   Your English doesn't match your lojban, but I wonder if n2 should
>> be/must be/shouldn't be =j1?
>
> Ouch! Then I'm surprised you didn't offer a alternative with better English:)
>
> I find the structure of gismu definitions frequently makes the use of good
> English difficult.

  But can you be a patriot about about a people you are not a part of?
 That's my question.  (I suppose you can say that Lee Harvey Oswald
was a Cuban patriot despite not being Cuban (or more contemporarily,
Rachel Corrie/Palestine).  But if so, then the n2 doesn't seem to be
needed at all.  What does it add? So you see my dilemma).
             --gejyspa

>
>