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Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2010 12:57:16 -0400
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Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Alice in Wonderland 12
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: jbovlaste@lojban.org
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On Wed, Oct 6, 2010 at 12:30 PM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>> >
>> > Then how would you say 'Paul Revere was an American patriot'?
>> >
>>
>>   la pal.rivir naijgi lo merko
>>
>>   Why is that problematic for you?
>
> It isn't.  But to me that is exactly what
> 'j1 is a patriot of nation n1' gives you.
>
> The issue seesm to be whether one is patriotic about the nation
> or its peoples (or something broader as {lo merko} suggests).
>

  Possibly, but then how does your queried English sentence illustrate
that?  My question why is your original definition "X is proud of the
event of Y being the nation of person Z"?

  What the heck is Z doing there?  Now, IF X=Z, then that's fine, so
get rid of the Z and put it in the beginning -> X=Z is proud of (fact,
not event, pe'i) tha Y is their nation.

 If not, then you want me to be able to say that "Paul Revere is
patriotic that Russian is the national identity of Stalin".  That
doesn't sound very much like the English "patriotic" to me.  (Not to
mention anachronisitc).  Your English definition doesn't mention the
Z, and I think that's correct.

>>   What your lojban definition really should be, I think:
>>
>> j1=n2 jgira tu'a n1 (or j1=n2 jgira lo du'u n1 natmi ce'u, if you must)
>>

>
         --gejyspa