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Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 11:59:34 -0400
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Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: Alice in Wonderland 14
From: Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com>
To: jbovlaste@lojban.org
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On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 11:24 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 22, 2010 at 9:44 AM, A. PIEKARSKI <totus@rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> coi ro do
>>
>> In Chapter 3, we have a reference to an oyster which is translated
>> into lojban as {cakcurnu}.
>>
>> I'd be inclined to have {cakcurnu} mean bivalve molluscs which
>> would include oysters, clams, mussels and scallops.  But then what
>> would we call an oyster specifically?
>>
>> If we leave {cakcurnu} as 'oyster', then what lujvo or fu'ivla would
>> do for the remaing bivalve molluscs.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> totus
>
>   But using "cakcurnu" as a translation for "oyster" in no way implies
> that "cakcurnu" means only "oyster".  There is never an implication
> when translating word X from language A into language B as word Y that
> X and Y encompass the exact same domain of meanings.  When I say "My
> house is home to many lice" in French is "Ma maison est la maison à
> beaucoup de poux" (is that correct?  I'm not a Francophone), the word
> "house" and "home" are both translated as "maison", but I wouldn't say
> that "maison" = "house" or "maison" = "home".  Rather it's a term that
> means both.  "Cakcurnu" can be the tranlation of oyster, clam, etc.,
> but that doesn't mean it means only one of them.
>
> geyspa
>
> _____________________________
>
>
> I don't think I wrote that it meant only 'oyster'.

   I drew that conclusion from your statements "...oyster which is
translated into lojban as {cakcurnu}." and "If we leave {cakcurnu} as
'oyster'..."
  Implying that you felt it meant only oyster.  But be that as it may,
I don't disagree with your following assertion:

> But my question remains:
> if cakcurnu were to mean 'bivalve mollusc', what lujvo/fu'ivla might we have
>  for oyster, clam etc?  If I were the owner of a seafood restaurant in
> Lojbanistan and I was making up a menu, that could be inportant for me.

  John Cowan's answer is very germane, though.  Different languages
break up the world in different ways, and even different spheres
_within the same language_ do.  So to ask the question, "what should I
call an oyster?" is imprecise at best. That being said, I would say if
you wanted to distinguish an oyster in general from other bivalves, it
seems to me that a boijme [cupra] cakcurnu works fine.  (And yes, I'd
prefer the tanru to lujvo/fu'ivla for uses such as in a menu in a
seafood restaurant).  I would definitely choose something different
for a scientific work.  If you really have your heart set on a lujvo,
"boljmepracurnu")

                --gejyspa