Return-path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_SIGNED, FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS,T_DKIM_INVALID, T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=no version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:34:19 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLHMG-0002wk-RD; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:34:09 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:33:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLHLr-0002vs-0N for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:33:43 -0800 Received: from mail-yx0-f181.google.com ([209.85.213.181]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLHLl-0002oG-US for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:33:42 -0800 Received: by yxd39 with SMTP id 39so14030289yxd.40 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:33:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:sender:received :in-reply-to:references:date:x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=dSv7cuOy7bmy7wbv09DFR9s5V8vhELkr3CoUB/wnRY8=; b=BvTAO/baRt8U5Azuu41tIjfmtm89w4qkEEHGI7vFUVk7LwJ0U5mA3TBhnGcpRPL8QX sDA8xrOE450rt+2RD0nuJ1dU/4XzYlY+HtaTDh3+AU4a2dvYsrLJ09ivWhcm1eZQWo92 kudN+PyEh/M1KRi9oA75feGZY5eYp2WEhjves= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; b=bhnrGcKpRtGAsGxWCkiAQYGCq1REsA8WcbODp54HbvyoxF5J3Rz+0i1iIwsSz5mezy elKauTQEPvqLg568PzEhSB57H/Fx86TyXT2rh7LQdB1kkQIaln1AumGP/o6WssX6fSmj b02hGmhkbX1PSuidVRs0g91bmfNqO35QyZMAo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.150.230.21 with SMTP id c21mr1157783ybh.130.1290612810797; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:33:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.170.2 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 07:33:30 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20101124151934.GA12462@alice.local> References: <770898.27481.qm@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <201011232247.21133.phma@phma.optus.nu> <956656.46566.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20101124151934.GA12462@alice.local> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 10:33:30 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7xg1f8YrBPf7QbGF2b2bBFsUE9s Message-ID: Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: fu'ivla for liquors From: Craig Daniel To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by Ecartis X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: teucer@pobox.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 1571 Lines: 29 On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Alan Post wrote: > > I broadly agree that we should stick to the strict definitions.  I'm > curious *why* the strict definitions refer to products from specific > areas of France, and whether that reason is sufficient to carry into > a fu'ivla. Because that is how French wines are normally named. Champagne comes from Champagne, Burgundy from Burgundy, Bordeaux from Bordeaux. Back before grapes of all sorts could be readily grown anywhere, you named a wine by the style, and the styles took their names from their native regions; now it's been legislated in the EU that it should stay thus. The US does not have such legislation in force, so if you make a Champagne style sparkling wine in California you can call it Champagne (though the better wineries refuse to do so, out of respect for France; ironically, therefore, despite the prestige of the Champagne name a "sparkling white wine" from Napa is probably better than a "Champagne" from the same region) but if you make one in Spain you call it "Champagne-style sparkling wine." (Actually, you probably instead call it "Cava," a Spanish style very similar in many ways to Champagne, but you get the idea. Similarly, most examples of Saumur - a traditional French style from, well, guess what town - meet every part of the legal definition of Champagne except for the grapes being grown in the wrong part of the country; the wineries that make it are far too proud of the local product to try to compare it to something from elsewhere, though.)