Return-path: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED, DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW,SPF_PASS,T_DKIM_INVALID, T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL autolearn=ham version=3.3.1 X-Spam-Personal-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.1 (2010-03-16) on chain.digitalkingdom.org Envelope-to: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Delivery-date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 04:28:30 -0800 Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org ([192.168.123.127]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PR24z-0002mb-CT; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 04:28:05 -0800 Received: with ECARTIS (v1.0.0; list jbovlaste); Fri, 10 Dec 2010 04:27:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from nobody by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PR23v-0002lb-N7 for jbovlaste-real@lojban.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 04:26:59 -0800 Received: from mail-wy0-f181.google.com ([74.125.82.181]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PR23p-0002gm-Bt for jbovlaste@lojban.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 04:26:59 -0800 Received: by wyf22 with SMTP id 22so4068957wyf.40 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 04:26:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:in-reply-to :references:date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=wp/DaR512lI4ESn2WjATWLI+VvDF8ON7lKMgLiXzwlA=; b=vD6Y1t7vGezF7RESV0yEJWOSRKCKxhCdFPpluR/r3AsIJaADloiZG7h0g9w0arymUN 4lnc9Lj6kgdxt/+ZLyq5bFImJLHABO9MGkQkkv0jPoydwUlluZavb/prr+iupdVnZkmp BP9ZRejlcLxc91psTBash/9Pjuvl2C1BmsmMc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=exKlLh4LgC22DZdnfItV6XyAOsLz7KT1ooMOkeYo35nJ01B47OZAmmabJGDPUTV4wl kgNo2haT44BqmV4tbvXEv8cluqCynoWuvkxZWCxafisLuuQCOjS1PxnGzMTmY5IP1Jgp AQT2PvThc2lBxWIE5Y9i5ER1dx75oGySsLZAQ= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.216.172.15 with SMTP id s15mr2095455wel.70.1291984007078; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 04:26:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.54.72 with HTTP; Fri, 10 Dec 2010 04:26:46 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <885332.19254.qm@web88003.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <810610.45148.qm@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 09:26:46 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: [jbovlaste] Re: natural and human rights From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: jbovlaste@lojban.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-ecartis-version: Ecartis v1.0.0 Sender: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org Errors-to: jbovlaste-bounce@lojban.org X-original-sender: jjllambias@gmail.com Precedence: bulk Reply-to: jbovlaste@lojban.org X-list: jbovlaste Content-Length: 820 Lines: 22 On Fri, Dec 10, 2010 at 8:20 AM, tijlan wrote: > > zifre3 (condition) is that which makes zifre2 (event/state) possible for > zifre1. A right is that which makes an event/state possible for someone. That doesn't sound quite right. The first part, yes. The second, not so much. I think all "under conditions" places should be dropped from gismu that have them, since there doesn't seem to be any reason why some relations should be conditioned and others not, but given the place, this is how I would use "zifre", for example: do zifre lo nu pilno ti kei lo nu do sitna mi "You are free to use this as long as you cite me as a source." The right is "lo nu pilno ti". "lo nu do sitna mi" is the condition for the right, it is not the right. A condition is not a right. mu'o mi'e xorxes